Planned Parenthood Strikes Back - Sues Libelous Video Makers

[stamperben]

There are more free clinics that provide actual health care to women than does PP. Don't be fooled that the US taxpayer isn't funding abortion. They are. There's nothing that PP provides, other than an abortion, than can be found free elsewhere. In fact, more service will be found outside of a PP provider. PP offers limited services.

You should take that up with your congressman since the law of the land doesn't allow for any tax money to go to anything except for the life of the mother, rape and incest.

What experience do you personally have with using PP services?

 

[PapaZoom]

You should take that up with your congressman since the law of the land doesn't allow for any tax money to go to anything except for the life of the mother, rape and incest.

What experience do you personally have with using PP services?

Thanks for the advice but on a discussion board we discuss and offer opinions. And I see no relevance in your question.

 

[stamperben]

Thanks for the advice but on a discussion board we discuss and offer opinions. And I see no relevance in your question.

Of course not...

 

[PapaZoom]

Of course not...

Then explain the relevance.

 

[stamperben]

Then explain the relevance.

not gonna waste my time. You already said you didn't see it and I doubt you'd see it even if I explained it.

 

[PapaZoom]

not gonna waste my time. You already said you didn't see it and I doubt you'd see it even if I explained it.

You choose to come to a discussion board and post a comment but refuse to clarify it. Then you make excuses for yourself.

 

[stamperben]

You choose to come to a discussion board and post a comment but refuse to clarify it. Then you make excuses for yourself.

You already flittered away my comment. That's on you, not me.

 

[PapaZoom]

You already flittered away my comment. That's on you, not me.

More excuses. Your question was irrelevant. And the proof of that is you can't explain its relevance. However you do have a arsenal of excuses it appears.

 

[dgiharris]

There are more free clinics that provide actual health care to women than does PP. Don't be fooled that the US taxpayer isn't funding abortion. They are. There's nothing that PP provides, other than an abortion, than can be found free elsewhere. In fact, more service will be found outside of a PP provider. PP offers limited services.

This argument "indirectly" infers that PP is the only place people can get abortions, that if PP was magically removed, the # of abortions per year would decrease and more babies would be born...

About 6 or so years ago, Craigslist person section listed escort ads and was the #1 listing for sex workers. Then, someone killed an escort from a CL ad and the politicians used that as justification for going after CL's escort ads. And with much fanfare and foaming at the mouth, they attacked CL and CL removed their escort ads. Then, immediately, Back Page escort ads took over CL's traffic and within weeks, Back Page became the new CL for escort ads. Nothing changed.

I submit that those of you foaming at the mouth to remove Planned Parenthood because in your mind you think their removal will decrease the amount of abortions performed are delusional simpletons. THis is very basic Economic Theory, Econ 101. If there is a demand, there will be a supply. Period. The energy you expend on trying to remove PP is just wasted. Ultimately, if your wish were granted and every single PP was burned to the ground, another org would take its place, women needing abortions would simply go somewhere else. Just as sex workers migrated to BP from CL, so to would women needing abortions migrate from PP to somewhere else.

Lastly, look at this

I get annoyed at abortionist arguments that don't acknowledge reality. Abortions have been on a steady decline and PP is a vital part of that by distributing contraceptives and education to at-risk demographics that likely would not get them by other means.

If you are serious about preventing abortions, you need to stop wasting energy attacking PP. This is a simple Econ 101 problem. Your best solution is to put your energy into prevention and education. Attacking PP is a red herring. Market forces will always prevail, you can't bind the invisible hand. If women need abortions, they will figure out a way to get them. SO, instead, figure out a way to remove that need-- hence, put your energy towards prevention and education.

 

[PapaZoom]

This argument "indirectly" infers that PP is the only place people can get abortions, that if PP was magically removed, the # of abortions per year would decrease and more babies would be born...

No. In context this was to demonstrate that a woman can get all the prenatal help she needs from free clinics which are all over the US.

About 6 or so years ago, Craigslist person section listed escort ads and was the #1 listing for sex workers. Then, someone killed an escort from a CL ad and the politicians used that as justification for going after CL's escort ads. And with much fanfare and foaming at the mouth, they attacked CL and CL removed their escort ads. Then, immediately, Back Page escort ads took over CL's traffic and within weeks, Back Page became the new CL for escort ads. Nothing changed.

I submit that those of you foaming at the mouth to remove Planned Parenthood because in your mind you think their removal will decrease the amount of abortions performed are delusional simpletons.

Foaming at the mouth. Delusional simpletons.

THis is very basic Economic Theory, Econ 101. If there is a demand, there will be a supply. Period. The energy you expend on trying to remove PP is just wasted.

Right. So just because there is a demand kill the unborn and therefore a supplier, why waste one's energy trying to protect the life of unborn human beings.

Ultimately, if your wish were granted and every single PP was burned to the ground,

which was never said

another org would take its place, women needing abortions would simply go somewhere else.

Because someone going to kill the unborn so lets make it "safe" and legal. Safe.

Just as sex workers migrated to BP from CL, so to would women needing abortions migrate from PP to somewhere else.

Because it's not about killing unborn human beings.

Lastly, look at this

And because fewer unborn humans are being killed, we should leave it alone. Heck there are only 3500 abortions each day now. Let's celebrate.

I get annoyed at abortionist arguments that don't acknowledge reality. Abortions have been on a steady decline and PP is a vital part of that by distributing contraceptives and education to at-risk demographics that likely would not get them by other means.

Yeah, let's acknowledge reality: 3,562 unborn human beings are killed each day.

If you are serious about preventing abortions, you need to stop wasting energy attacking PP.

Attacking PP Rich

This is a simple Econ 101 problem. Your best solution is to put your energy into prevention and education. Attacking PP is a red herring. Market forces will always prevail, you can't bind the invisible hand. If women need abortions, they will figure out a way to get them. SO, instead, figure out a way to remove that need-- hence, put your energy towards prevention and education.

Baby killing is big business. Can't we just all get along?

 

[dgiharris]

...
Right. So just because there is a demand kill the unborn and therefore a supplier, why waste one's energy trying to protect the life of unborn human beings.

Yes. Exactly this.

It is legal, the argument has been waged in the Supreme Court and the rights of the mother trump the rights of her fetus. The mother has the right to do abort the fetus for basically ANY reason. Now, a compromise has been reached in many states, usually abortion is only granted up until the 2nd trimester. This has been fought and upheld time and time again. Sorry, your side lost. You are tilting at windmills.

...
. Because someone going to kill the unborn so lets make it "safe" and legal. Safe.

Yes, exactly. It is legal, therefore it should be safe. It is a medical procedure that a woman elects to have, so it should be safe, convenient, and as easy as possible. Why? Because it is basic Capitalism and we live in a SECULAR society.

...
.....And because fewer unborn humans are being killed, we should leave it alone. Heck there are only 3500 abortions each day now. Let's celebrate.

I feel that many prolifers care more about their moral indignation than their actual cause. You seem to take offense to unborn human beings being killed. This would imply that you would be delighted in fewer of them being killed.

I am pointing out that your current method of achieving the above goal is inefficient to the point of being meaningless. Rather than adjust your tactics to maximize your efficiency you would rather take the more inefficient route of attacking PP and other related red-herrings.

...
Yeah, let's acknowledge reality: 3,562 unborn human beings are killed each day.

And acknowledge that this number is half of what it was years ago and is steadily declining year after year.

Acknowledge that without PP and similar organizations, this number would increase. If you got your wish, if PP was dismantled, then the number of abortions per year would RISE. So, it seems pretty simple to me. If your goal is to reduce the # of abortions then you should put your energy into actions that actually can accomplish that.

And this is the problem I have with most prolifers. To me, it seems more about the moral indignation than the actual cause. It's as if you delight in being morally superior rather than in actually saving lives (as you put it).

All the energy spent railing against PP is energy that could be better spent actually achieving your goals of saving lives.

So stop tilting at windmills

...
Baby killing is big business. Can't we just all get along?

Exactly, it is big business. We live in a Capitalist SECULAR society. So, it would behoove you to incorporate those truths into your objectives and goals and approach a solution from that aspect. Instead, too many prolifers would much rather not lose their perch atop of the pillar of moral superiority where they can look down their noses at us poor unenlightened baby killers.

Put your energy into reducing demand-- Prevention and education. Look at that chart and ask yourself "What was the principle reasons why the numbers decreased?" Figure out those reasons and promote more of it. And the data shows, contraceptive usage and education are the 2 biggest factors for reducing abortions. So again, if your goal is saving lives, then I suggest you put your energy towards actions that best accomplish that goal.

 

[Sistrin]

That they sold baby parts is one of the biggest ones.

They admitted to selling baby parts. Perish the thought but given the mindsets in play if this were 1945 you guys would be defending Josef Mengele as a poor victim of right-wing hate.

It is legal, the argument has been waged in the Supreme Court and the rights of the mother trump the rights of her fetus.

Slavery was once legal in this country. If your argument is because abortion is legal it is unassailable then during the 1850's you would clearly have been a secessionist. I mean the law said blacks could be bought and sold like cattle. How could you possibly have argued against that?

 

[redleghunter]

From ChristianScienceMonitor (emphasis added):

Planned Parenthood filed a federal court lawsuit Thursday alleging extensive criminal misconduct by the anti-abortion activists who produced undercover videos targeting the handling of fetal tissue at some Planned Parenthood clinics.

"The people behind this fraud lied and broke the law in order to spread malicious lies about Planned Parenthood," said Dawn Laguens, the organization's executive vice president. "This lawsuit exposes the elaborate, illegal conspiracy designed to block women's access to safe and legal abortion."

...The lawsuit says the videos were the result of numerous illegalities, including making recordings without consent, registering false identities with state agencies, and violating non-disclosure agreements.
​

If PP can prove the fraud, they should get a decent settlement, but I doubt the frontmen - the Center for Medical Progress - actually has the kind of money they cost PP.

It's not libelous if the information is true.

 

[redleghunter]

No U.

Planned Parenthood had that verified independently by professionals. Yeah, truth is Kool-Aid.

Are you saying there were no parts harvested? That the videos were doctored where PP employees discuss harvesting brain matter and other body parts?

 

[iluvatar5150]

They admitted to selling baby parts.

Does getting reimbursed for expenses qualify as selling?

 

[redleghunter]

Does getting reimbursed for expenses qualify as selling?

If they did not harvest parts then why seek reimbursement?

 

[iluvatar5150]

If they did not harvest parts then why seek reimbursement?

I'm not the one quibbling about the word "harvest" - I think the word "harvest" is accurate. The videos, however, alleged that they profited from that harvesting, which is illegal, and which they didn't do. Sistrin claimed that they "sold" the parts; the word "sell" can have different connotations depending on the context and intended meaning, so I'm asking Sistrin to clarify what he meant.

 

[DaisyDay]

They admitted to selling baby parts.

That just isn't true. You're perpetuating the falsehood the video makers created - which is why they're being sued and why they should lose..

Perish the thought but given the mindsets in play if this were 1945 you guys would be defending Josef Mengele as a poor victim of right-wing hate.

Lie, mudslinging and congrats for the Godwin.

Slavery was once legal in this country. If your argument is because abortion is legal it is unassailable then during the 1850's you would clearly have been a secessionist. I mean the law said blacks could be bought and sold like cattle. How could you possibly have argued against that?

Derail.

 

[Sistrin]

That just isn't true.

It most certainly is. You are pursuing the same flawed defense as the rest of the pro-abortion crowd. You are attempting to make the completely specious claim that when Dr. Nucatola, when speaking of providing aborted baby body parts to those seeking to buy them, said "they just want to do it in a way that is not perceived as this clinic is selling tissue, this clinic is making money off of this," she didn't actually say those words because we couldn't see the part of the video tape where she ordered her lunch.

Later in that same video Nucatola spoke directly to performing abortions in the manner best suited to preserve the desired body parts. Quote:

"Exactly. So then you are just kind of cognizant of where you put your graspers, you try to intentionally go above and below the thorax, so that, you know, we've been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that, so I'm not gonna crush that part, I'm going to basically crush below, I'm gonna crush above, and I'm gonna see if I can get it all intact."

This is a woman proud of her work. However your counter-argument to the words as spoken by this one Planned Parenthood doctor is to try and claim because we didn't hear her order her glass of wine well, she didn't actually say that! She wasn't talking about preserving specific aborted baby parts most desired for resale!

The attempt to twist what PP has been and continues to do is almost as sick as what PP has been and continues to do.

You're perpetuating the falsehood the video makers created - which is why they're being sued and why they should lose..

They are being sued because they exposed the truth, and liberalism can not operate in the light of the truth.

Lie, mudslinging and congrats for the Godwin.

Yeah? There are legitimate comparisons to be made between Mengela and pro-abortion Icon Kermit Gosnell. Gosnell ran the Women's Medical Society abortion clinic in Philadelphia, and according to his defenders was truly a compassionate man. PP abortion doctors admitted to slicing up babies to harvest their organs for study. So did Mengela. There are a few differences in the scope of their work, but the methodology is much the same.

Derail.

Again, this is how one knows they have scored a direct hit, when someone responds with the thread derail charge.

 

[brinny]

If the video makers truly did something wrong, then that is bad. But I don't think it begins to compare with killing hundreds of innocent human persons every day for profit.

i agree. Excellent point.