Pi

[[serious]]

I'll ask you the same question (modified):

If I asked you to build me a circular swimming pool that had an inner circumference of 30 cubits, and an outer diameter of 10 cubits --- could you do it?

Sure, to the tolerances of the significant figures you have specified.

Now, under your logic, I could build you a 10 cubit wide hot tub that only had an inner circumference of a single cubit if I made the lip/walls big enough. You'd probably never hire me for a job again though when you realized your 10 cubit hottub could only soak an arm at a time.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sure, to the tolerances of the significant figures you have specified.

Now, under your logic, I could build you a 10 cubit wide hot tub that only had an inner circumference of a single cubit if I made the lip/walls big enough. You'd probably never hire me for a job again though when you realized your 10 cubit hottub could only soak an arm at a time.

Indeed -- but one thing I can't go around doing is saying you got Pi wrong -- could I?

 

[[serious]]

Indeed -- but one thing I can't go around doing is saying you got Pi wrong -- could I?

But you can say I measured wrong.

This isn't an error unless you demand more significant figures than appropriate. Cubits were approximate measures though several attempts were made to standardize it over the centuries. There are over a dozen "cubits" that were in common use.

If they wanted to specify it as an exact length, they could have included spans as well as cubits as was done with the height of Goliath. The lack of any indication that the 0 was to be considered significant makes it entirely appropriate to leave the discrepancy in the margin of error.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

I don't see what the problem is with Pi in 1 Kings 7.Take a look at this artist's representation:

​

Is this the same artist that drew Nebraska man?

 

[AV1611VET]

If they wanted to specify it as an exact length, they could have included spans as well as cubits as was done with the height of Goliath.

They didn't though.

Pi isn't even mentioned in that passage -- only circumference and diameter.

 

[[serious]]

They didn't though.

Pi isn't even mentioned in that passage -- only circumference and diameter.

Right. And those two measurements are accurate to the significant figures given.

 

[pgp_protector]

Is this the same artist that drew Nebraska man?

Win

 

[Pesto]

The Pi "Problem" isn't a problem at all for King James literalists. It doesn't actually say that the lake is circular. It just says it is round.

 

[AirForceTeacher]

Why on earth is this even an argument? If I'm planning a spot for a pool in my back yard, I'm gonna take the diameter and multiply it by three to get a reasonable guesstimate. Why do we assume that because it's in the Word that the write was doing anything different?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why on earth is this even an argument? If I'm planning a spot for a pool in my back yard, I'm gonna take the diameter and multiply it by three to get a reasonable guesstimate. Why do we assume that because it's in the Word that the write was doing anything different?

It's called "clutching at straws".

Anything to try and disprove the Bible.

Even if they have to look silly trying to.

 

[[serious]]

It's called "clutching at straws".

Anything to try and disprove the Bible.

Even if they have to look silly trying to.

So why are you coming up with some design and measurement scheme to try to explain it?

why not just say, "it's accurate to the significant figures given" and leave it at that. When you come up with ridiculous twisted around justifications, it does more to legitimize the criticism of the bible than refute it.

 

[granpa]

I don't see what the problem is with Pi in 1 Kings 7.

23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
24 And under the brim of it round about there were knops compassing it, ten in a cubit, compassing the sea round about: the knops were cast in two rows, when it was cast.
25 It stood upon twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, and three looking toward the west, and three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east: and the sea was set above upon them, and all their hinder parts were inward.
26 And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained two thousand baths.

Take a look at this artist's representation:

​

Notice five things that this object could have, if it was built to specs:

1. 7.5 feet heigth [5 cubits] (not counting the oxen at the base)
2. the brim at the top 1.7124 feet [1.1416 cubits] wide
3. an outer circumference of 45 feet [30 cubits]
4. an inner circumference of 15 feet [10 cubits]
5. a wall 4-6 inches [handbreath] thick

Thus satisfying all the dimensions necessary.

10+5+10+5=30
in other words the sides were vertical

 

[AV1611VET]

10+5+10+5=30
in other words the sides were vertical

I wonder why people have problems with this?

 

[KWCrazy]

I wonder why people have problems with this?

Unbelievers always seek to find fault with the Scriptures. Decimals weren't consistently used until about 1616, but they pretend failing to mention a system of measures that didn't exist at the time somehow invalidates the validity of the Scriptures. Desperate, damned and deceived, they wallow in the distortions of their own pitiful interpretations of Scripture. Cubits aren't exactly precise measurements, and their length varies according to the bone structure of the one doing the measuring. Regardless, they will believe what they wish and disbelieve what they wish. They hold their own twisted versions of truth, and the light light of reason will never reach them.

It's a noble effort, but futile.

 

[pgp_protector]

Ok, granpa what's with all the zombie threads?

 

[lesliedellow]

Why do atheists expect the Bible to give the value of pi to a million decimal places, when decimal fractions weren't even invented until the first century BC - and then not in Palestine?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why do atheists expect the Bible to give the value of pi to a million decimal places, when decimal fractions weren't even invented until the first century BC - and then not in Palestine?

Their [unconscious] goal, in my opinion, is to eventually discredit every single verse of Scripture.

Even if they have to grasp at straws to do it.

 

[Kylie]

Hespera, if I placed a hula-hoop with a diameter of 4 feet inside of a hula-hoop with a circumference of 15 feet, and connected them with a rim, then would not this statement be accurate:

• This object has a 4-foot diameter and is 15 feet around.

Two hula hoops are not one object. Counting the number of objects is fairly simple, AV...

 

[KWCrazy]

Two hula hoops are not one object. Counting the number of objects is fairly simple, AV...

If the diameter is measured at the top with a diameter of four feet the diameter would be 12.57 feet at that measurement. A circumference of 15 feet yields a diameter of 4.77 feet, or roughly a 4' diameter with a thickness of 4.62 inches.

So what's the problem?

 

[Kylie]

If the diameter is measured at the top with a diameter of four feet the diameter would be 12.57 feet at that measurement. A circumference of 15 feet yields a diameter of 4.77 feet, or roughly a 4' diameter with a thickness of 4.62 inches.

So what's the problem?

The problem is that AV SPECIFICALLY said he was using two hula hoops, and then refers to "this object", which is singular. And then he takes properties from both and treats them as though they are both the properties of a single object. It is so unclear and vague that I can only conclude that it would be an attempt to deceive.

I mean, if I said "This person was born in 2003 and has been married for twelve years,", you'd think something was up. How could a person be married since before they were born? But then if I told you that "this person" was actually two people, my husband and my daughter, it becomes clear.

And then you say, "Kylie, if you think your husband and your daughter are one person, you're crazy." And you'd be quite right to say it too.