Pi

[AV1611VET]

I don't see what the problem is with Pi in 1 Kings 7.

23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
24 And under the brim of it round about there were knops compassing it, ten in a cubit, compassing the sea round about: the knops were cast in two rows, when it was cast.
25 It stood upon twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, and three looking toward the west, and three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east: and the sea was set above upon them, and all their hinder parts were inward.
26 And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained two thousand baths.

Take a look at this artist's representation:

​

Notice five things that this object could have, if it was built to specs:

1. 7.5 feet heigth [5 cubits] (not counting the oxen at the base)
2. the brim at the top 1.7124 feet [1.1416 cubits] wide
3. an outer circumference of 45 feet [30 cubits]
4. an inner circumference of 15 feet [10 cubits]
5. a wall 4-6 inches [handbreath] thick

Thus satisfying all the dimensions necessary.

 

[Washington]

You must be getting awfully bored, having to resurrect an old argument that you plowed through about a year or so ago.

Better luck this time around.

 

[AV1611VET]

You must be getting awfully bored, having to resurrect an old argument that you plowed through about a year or so ago.

Better luck this time around.

Thank you --- I believe this one covers all the bases ---

 

[Alunyel]

I don't see what the problem is with Pi in 1 Kings 7.Take a look at this artist's representation:

Notice five things that this object could have, if it was built to specs:

1. 7.5 feet heigth [5 cubits] (not counting the oxen at the base)
2. the brim at the top 1.7124 feet [1.1416 cubits] wide
3. an outer circumference of 45 feet [30 cubits]
4. an inner circumference of 18 feet [10 cubits]
5. a wall 4-6 inches [handbreath] thick

Thus satisfying all the dimensions necessary.

Why is a cubit 1.5' for all of them but the inner circumference, which a cubit is 1.8'?

 

[Hespera]

I don't see what the problem is with Pi in 1 Kings 7.Take a look at this artist's representation:

​

Notice five things that this object could have, if it was built to specs:

1. 7.5 feet heigth [5 cubits] (not counting the oxen at the base)
2. the brim at the top 1.7124 feet [1.1416 cubits] wide
3. an outer circumference of 45 feet [30 cubits]
4. an inner circumference of 18 feet [10 cubits]
5. a wall 4-6 inches [handbreath] thick

Thus satisfying all the dimensions necessary.

The dimensions necessary for what? The value of Pi?

The problem has been explained to you before, but here it is again:

Its only a problem for someone who thinks that the bible is accurate.

Or wonders what are the implications for an inerrant book, if it is inaccurate in one place. Maybe it is inaccurate in other places?

As Grandpapa said in Peter and the Wolf...."What then?"


( I would btw love to see someone measure with forearm and fingers to an accuracy of .0001 ft! And then using a handbreadth of 4 to 6 inches? ha!)

 

[AV1611VET]

The dimensions necessary for what? The value of Pi?

Yes.

The problem has been explained to you before, but here it is again:

Its only a problem for someone who thinks that the bible is accurate.

It's a problem-solved now.

Or wonders what are the implications for an inerrant book, if it is inaccurate in one place. Maybe it is inaccurate in other places?

Yup.

As Grandpapa said in Peter and the Wolf...."What then?"

Back to the drawing board?

( I would btw love to see someone measure with forearm and fingers to an accuracy of .0001 ft! And then using a handbreadth of 4 to 6 inches? ha!)

Me too.

The Tabernacle and its appurtenances were made according to specs given them by God, Himself.

8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

In addition to that, the chief engineer, Bezaleel, had the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

Then wrought Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whom the LORD put wisdom and understanding to know how to work all manner of work for the service of the sanctuary, according to all that the LORD had commanded.

And the Tabernacle itself, a three-dimensional representation of Jesus Christ, was patterned after the Tabernacle in Heaven.

Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Question: Of all the parables in the Bible, which one is the greatest one?
Answer: The Tabernacle in the Wilderness.

Keep in mind too, that God always required just measurements.

But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

And He even has a strong distaste for them, if they aren't.

A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why is a cubit 1.5' for all of them but the inner circumference, which a cubit is 1.8'?

Good catch --- I was thinking 1.5 feet = 18 inches.

I'll correct it.

 

[Hespera]

.In addition to that, the chief engineer, Bezaleel, had the assistance of the Holy Spirit

So basically you are saying that god made the thing, and that being the case, he made it uniform and precise to an infinite number of decimal places.

You do know that the size will constantly change and the shape distort from thermal expansion / contraction, oxidation of the (bronze?) let alone if water is added. If someone even touched it, they'd change the size! Remember, it has to be accurate to an infinite number of decimal places.

So do you figure the measurements were correct.... when? The exact instant it was completed, but never again after? Every full moon?
Was it kept in a temperature controlled room filled with nitrogen, or did god just command it to stay the same size all the time?

You would have made the argument simpler if instead of all that scripture quoting you just said that god commanded it to be made perfect, and commanded it to stay perfect. That "solves" the Pi question.

 

[AV1611VET]

You would have made the argument simpler if instead of all that scripture quoting you just said that god commanded it to be made perfect, and commanded it to stay perfect. That "solves" the Pi question.

God did it --- case closed.

 

[Alunyel]

That makes about as much sense as:

Phase 1: Steal underpants.

Phase 2: ?

Phase 3: Profit!

 

[Hespera]

God did it --- case closed.

Ok so the numbers you gave are impossible, and dont cover any bases at all. Retreat to the five magic words. Pwned again; case closed.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ok so the numbers you gave are impossible, and dont cover any bases at all.

Hespera, if I placed a hula-hoop with a diameter of 4 feet inside of a hula-hoop with a circumference of 15 feet, and connected them with a rim, then would not this statement be accurate:

• This object has a 4-foot diameter and is 15 feet around.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I don't see what the problem is with Pi in 1 Kings 7.Take a look at this artist's representation:

​

Notice five things that this object could have, if it was built to specs:

1. 7.5 feet heigth [5 cubits] (not counting the oxen at the base)
2. the brim at the top 1.7124 feet [1.1416 cubits] wide
3. an outer circumference of 45 feet [30 cubits]
4. an inner circumference of 15 feet [10 cubits]
5. a wall 4-6 inches [handbreath] thick

Thus satisfying all the dimensions necessary.

As far as I am concerned, Pi = 3 was a close enough estimation for back then. When you read the Bible in context, it works. But if you want to take it at literal truth... well then you have to come up with some interesting argument for why it says 3 and not 3.14. If Pi was not some mathematical fact, or something so easy to understand that you can learn the basics in before a single course in statistics or calculus, you would probably have people arguing left and right that pi is 3, not 3.14. Luckily, people are smarth enough to know they can't argue with pure math (well, simple pure math), and thus they try to explain it away.

 

[AV1611VET]

As far as I am concerned, Pi = 3 was a close enough estimation for back then. When you read the Bible in context, it works. But if you want to take it at literal truth... well then you have to come up with some interesting argument for why it says 3 and not 3.14. If Pi was not some mathematical fact, or something so easy to understand that you can learn the basics in before a single course in statistics or calculus, you would probably have people arguing left and right that pi is 3, not 3.14. Luckily, people are smarth enough to know they can't argue with pure math (well, simple pure math), and thus they try to explain it away.

As many times as I have read the Bible, that was never a concern with me --- and I know Pi to the 20[sup]th[/sup] decimal place.

Only on the Internet, my friend, only on the Internet.

 

[Hespera]

AV sez.... Originally Posted by Hespera

Ok so the numbers you gave are impossible, and dont cover any bases at all.
​

Hespera, if I placed a hula-hoop with a diameter of 4 feet inside of a hula-hoop with a circumference of 15 feet, and connected them with a rim, then would not this statement be accurate:

• This object has a 4-foot diameter and is 15 feet around.QUOTE//////////////////////

Hespera sez...
.
Well sure, AV.... just not VERY accurate. Its APPROXIMATE, like the bible.

The numbers you gave are impossible to achieve, and impossible to measure, like with the water tank, or 'sea' whatever that thing is.

What else is there to say about it? Other than for those who try to take the bible as i errant to try to work out the implications of the bible being demonstrably only approximately correct.

 

[Tinker Grey]

As I have stated before, the Bible could have been perfectly accurate without requiring the authors to know anymore than they did. Simply say: It was 10 cubits across and it was round. Done! If you wanted to be more flashy: It was 10 cubits across and a line of 30 cubits compassed it not about.

 

[Hespera]

Tiner sez...."As I have stated before, the Bible could have been perfectly accurate without requiring the authors to know anymore than they did. Simply say: It was 10 cubits across and it was round. Done! If you wanted to be more flashy: It was 10 cubits across and a line of 30 cubits compassed it not about."QUOTE//////////


Hespera sez........


I dont see how the bible could be more accurate than what is written down!

What was written down was APPROXIMATE! Because it is impossible to get the numbers exactly correct. You can count 200 dead philistines., and get that exact.
Measure accurately with a string and cubits? ha. Not a chance.

If it is ok with everyone that the bible was only approximately correct about that, and by implication, who knows what all else...then no prob.

Someone wants to claim the figures are accurate to how many decimal places...an infinite number would be required to be accurate... well, is say humbug.

Say the bible is approximately correct about the numbers,and i will agree. " Done!"


Oh... you said a line of 30 cubits compassed it NOT about? is that an accurate quote? if so, one problem solved! the line would not compass it about.

Except of course that there is no way to accurately measure the 30 cubits or the 10, so those are still approximate.

 

[Washington]

If we use 10 as the diameter then the circumference should be 31.42. If we use 30 for the circumference then the diameter should be 9.548.

Do with that what you will.

 

[Gracchus]

Oh come on. The difference between 3 and 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445...
is much smaller than the difference between what most Christians believe and the truth.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Hespera, if I placed a hula-hoop with a diameter of 4 feet inside of a hula-hoop with a circumference of 15 feet, and connected them with a rim, then would not this statement be accurate:

• This object has a 4-foot diameter and is 15 feet around.

No, because they'd be two separate objects. People wouldn't understand which one you were talking about.