Physics and the Immortality of the Soul

[Norman321]

even if you were right on all accounts, this would only apply to people who have been cremated.

No reason to talk about anything else. If memory can survive cremation then I would think that memory could survive just about anything. How about if we test your computer. WE will burn it for three hours at over 2,000 degrees and see if any of your eternal memory has survived.

I think everyone has asked at some point in their life just how memory survives after we die. This is a subject that I would think everyone has considered to some degree.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

I do not think that is important now. Science has been working on that for 2500 years and if they have not made any substantial progress then that is their problem, not mine. Carrol said:

""Claims that some form of consciousness persists after our bodies die and decay into their constituent atoms face one huge, insuperable obstacle: the laws of physics underlying everyday life are completely understood, and there’s no way within those laws to allow for the information stored in our brains to persist after we die. If you claim that some form of soul persists beyond death, what particles is that soul made of? What forces are holding it together? How does it interact with ordinary matter?" Sean Carrol (Phd Physics Harvard)

He claims there is no way for information stored in our brains persists after we die. I do not agree with that. Because Adams and Molecules are not subject to delay and the exact way memory is stored in not that well known. Also there is some indication that information is stored in area of our body other than out brain. I am afraid the Carrol with his Physics degree from Harvard does not well prepare him to deal with neurology. People just got though deriding Gifted neurosurgeon Ben Carson for his lack of knowledge about neurology. How much more is Carrol not qualified to offer opinions about this area of study?

What Carrol is asking for is to show that information stored in our brains to persist after we die.

Not at all, we are looking at what science has to say about it.

There is no evidence that memory does NOT exist after death. We do know that memory can exist for up to 100,000 years.

He died 7 years ago, so he is not here to defend or clarify what he believes anymore. Both my brothers believe memories continue after death, so they did not go along with my dad on that belief.


Run a google search and check out the surveys. "According to a Gallup opinion survey, nearly all Americans, 98% of them, believe in a higher power".

Oh no, I am ready to discuss if all life has cognitive ability. Not just people.

I do, I just study the research and read articles by journalists that study the research.

I think you should throw "The Tao of Physics" in the trash.

BTW, it's atoms, not "Adams."

And memories are well understood and we know where they're stored.

What do you think happens to Alzheimer pts.?

 

[Guy1]

I do not think that is important now. Science has been working on that for 2500 years and if they have not made any substantial progress then that is their problem, not mine.

That's your problem specifically.

He claims there is no way for information stored in our brains persists after we die. I do not agree with that.

Good thing reality doesn't care.

Because atoms and molecules are not subject to delay and the exact way memory is stored in not that well known.

We know it's at the micro scale, we know the elements involved. Really all that's missing is the exact mechanism. What we know about the process rules out many things.

Also there is some indication that information is stored in area of our body other than out brain.

No there is not.

I am afraid the Carrol with his Physics degree from Harvard does not well prepare him to deal with neurology.

And your lack of a degree, or really any experience with science whatsoever, has left you ill-equipped to be talking about the subject to begin with.

People just got though deriding Gifted neurosurgeon Ben Carson for his lack of knowledge about neurology. How much more is Carrol not qualified to offer opinions about this area of study?

He's skeptical of the existence of a soul.

What Carrol is asking for is to show that information stored in our brains to persist after we die.

The existence of a soul, my ignorant little friend

Not at all, we are looking at what science has to say about it.

It says there's no reason to believe such things exist.

There is no evidence that memory does NOT exist after death.

I think you're a Poe. You really have no idea how science work do you? You have to substantiate your claims (i.e. prove it exists). Not ask other to prove it does not.

He died 7 years ago, so he is not here to defend or clarify what he believes anymore. Both my brothers believe memories continue after death, so they did not go along with my dad on that belief.

His words live on in you! It's not to late to heed them.

Run a google search and check out the surveys. "According to a Gallup opinion survey, nearly all Americans, 98% of them, believe in a higher power".

I Google plenty of stuff for you. Bring me the link yourself.

Oh no, I am ready to discuss if all life has cognitive ability. Not just people.

Not all life has cognitive ability. I'm glad that's settled.

I do, I just study the research and read articles by journalists that study the research.

Haha journalists. It's funny because science is the most misrepresented thing in journalism.

 

[Guy1]

No reason to talk about anything else. If memory can survive cremation then I would think that memory could survive just about anything.

Yea no. Just because something survives a little fire doesn't mean it can survive anything.

How about if we test your computer. WE will burn it for three hours at over 2,000 degrees and see if any of your eternal memory has survived.

Oh it can still store memory since the aluminum in the hard disk is still there. And since we know aluminum can store memories then it'll still work!

See how ridiculous this sounds? The scary thing is that this one is actually more plausible. Since the elements used to store memory are still there, unlike in cremation.

I think everyone has asked at some point in their life just how memory survives after we die. This is a subject that I would think everyone has considered to some degree.

Those who actually try falsifying it quickly throw discard the notion.

 

[Norman321]

What do you think happens to Alzheimer pts.?

Actually I think their memory is intact but they lose the ability to be able to access their memory.

 

[Norman321]

Since the elements used to store memory are still there, unlike in cremation.

But the molecules & atoms are still intact after cremation and they can be used to store memory. The amazing thing is what happens if you scatter the ashes to the wind. At the resurrection God can bring all those memories back together again. For the person to be raised from the dead to receive their resurrected body. He will bring all the atoms and molecules that made up that person back together again.

 

[Norman321]

my ignorant little friend

Opps, sorry, that was a mistake, end of discussion.

 

[Ronald]

The point Carrol was making is that there is NOTHING in science to back that up. You can not store memory using pure energy. My response was that it's a mute point because of the resurrection of the dead. The physical body is raised.

Let's get to the real matter. Are you doubtful when you ask these questions and are you persuated by some Phd in physics who doesn't have a clue? Don't bother listening to someone who does not have the Holy Spirit, they are blind and unable to recognize the spiritual realm.
The resurrected body is a spiritual body able to transcend both realms, Jesus appeared in the upper room ... he wasn't there and then he was as if walking through the walls. He is not confined to physics, He created it.

 

[Guy1]

But the molecules & atoms are still intact after cremation and they can be used to store memory.

They cannot be used to store memory.

Opps, sorry, that was a mistake, end of discussion.

The only mistake here was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Indeed the moment I though that maybe you were just genuinely ignorant on the subject is the moment it all crumbled. You're not just ignorant; you're willfully ignorant. And to me that's the ultimate sign of an intellectually dead individual.

In this respect AVET, poe or otherwise, deserves some credit. He's at least honest about his willful ignorance with regards to anything that contradicts him. He honestly does not care about the evidence. We know it, he accepts it, and he has no problems telling the world.

What I'm trying to say is: Take a lesson from AVET. He's more honest (if incredibly dense).

 

[Elendur]

I don't understand why you need to limit god by saying he needs the memory stored.

 

[Guy1]

I don't understand why you need to limit god by saying he needs the memory stored.

This is more for him than anyone else. From what I'm seeing, it seems like he's desperately trying to reconcile science with his god; severely distorting his view of reality to fit a preconceived notion that contradicts it.

 

[Elendur]

This is more for him than anyone else. From what I'm seeing, it seems like he's desperately trying to reconcile science with his god; severely distorting his view of reality to fit a preconceived notion that contradicts it.

That would be one hypothesis, not saying anything about how correct you are though (to be politically correct ).
I would also like to hear his (Norman321) answer to that, to me, important question (even though I presented it in a non-question form ).

 

[Norman321]

I would also like to hear his (Norman321) answer to that

If you have a question go ahead and ask. I will not be responding to "Guy1" anymore because of his lack of respect.

 

[Elendur]

If you have a question go ahead and ask. I will not be responding to "Guy1" anymore because of his lack of respect.

Ok

I was referring to post #90:

I don't understand why you need to limit god by saying he needs the memory stored.

So the question would, kind of, be:
Why do you limit god by saying(writing) that he needs the memory stored somehow?

 

[BobRyan]

Anyone who has any experance at all with computers knows about memory and the problem of decay and corruption. The only solution seems to be to back up your data. Sean Carrol asks how can memory exists apart from basic physics of atoms and electrons?

"Claims that some form of consciousness persists after our bodies die and decay into their constituent atoms face one huge, insuperable obstacle: the laws of physics .

Matt 10:27-28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul but rather fear Him who is able to destroy BOTH body AND Soul in fiery hell".

At death "The body returns to the dust and the spirit of man goes to God who gave it". Eccl 12:7

Eccl 9:5-6 "The living know that they will die - the dead know not anything"

Ps 146: 4 at death "their thoughts perish"

But this is not governed by physics because there is no physics the studies the spirit or the soul to know the limits of it.

In Daniel 9 you have a prayer of Daniel starting in 9:1 and you have an angel sent to Daniel at the "start of his prayer". So that communication from heaven in response to Daniel's prayer is sent and the Angel arrives.

They have better science than we do... more informed.. .more capable.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

But the molecules & atoms are still intact after cremation and they can be used to store memory. The amazing thing is what happens if you scatter the ashes to the wind. At the resurrection God can bring all those memories back together again. For the person to be raised from the dead to receive their resurrected body. He will bring all the atoms and molecules that made up that person back together again.

That makes no sense. Individual Carbon, Oxygen and Nitrogen atoms floating about in the air do not store memory. If you reduce a computer down to individual atoms -- no memory is stored -- it is not retained in any fashion.

There is nothing magic or special about this Carbon atom or that one.

Every 6 months or so - you completely lose your skin -- all of your carbon atoms presently comprising your skin -- leave!

The brain is an "adapter" for the spirit - the soul. It is NOT the spirit it is NOT the soul. If one side of the brain is removed - you are not "half a spirit" or "half a soul". If part of the brain is damaged slightly - nearby cells take over the function of those that were damaged.

The only way to "change memory" is to hypnotize - to get to the soul/spirit and change its data. You cannot add some chemical to a single individual cell to make the memory of eating breakfast - the memory of going to the park.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[mzungu]

The challange was not to prove that carbon does store immortal memory (soul).

Unless you define "SOUL" then there is nothing more to be said. You are obviously basing everything on pure speculation and hearsay. Science does not work that way.

 

[AV1611VET]

Unless you define "SOUL" then there is nothing more to be said. You are obviously basing everything on pure speculation and hearsay. Science does not work that way.

In tripartite theology, the soul is the part of man's cosmology that houses the mind, the will, and the emotions.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

In tripartite theology, the soul is the part of man's cosmology that houses the mind, the will, and the emotions.

The brain houses the mind, the will, and the emotions.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

The only way to "change memory" is to hypnotize - to get to the soul/spirit and change its data. You cannot add some chemical to a single individual cell to make the memory of eating breakfast - the memory of going to the park.

Memories are stored as circuits of neuronal synapses

Methinks you have no idea how the brain works