Physics and our place in the Universe

[Mr Strawberry]

The astounding and manifold differences are recorded, both for the past and the future. How sweet it is!

Sorry, you've failed. Your favourite book, the very word of your god (apparently), fails to mention anything about your pet theory of all the physical laws in the universe changing 5000 years ago. You couldn't have dug yourself a bigger hole if you'd tried. You can whine all you like but wittering about "how sweet it is" is just like AV1611VET's 'take a hike' phrase: a red-faced attempt to deflect attention away from a rather amusing pratfall.

 

[Sayre]

Dad - are you using 2 Peter 2 to defend your idea?

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh[c] and despise authority.

If you are using these verses, then we may almost agree. I take this verse as pretty strong indication that anything flood related, and before... is some kind of mythical "ancient world" that never actually existed but formed a common prehistory for the people of Israel. Yes, S&G and Lot are included with Noah and his sons.

The character Lot seems to be a back story to explain Israel's perception of the Moabites. Lot, and the story of S&G, ends at the end of Gen 19. The comparison between Lot and Abraham seems to serve a similar function as the comparison between Saul and David. Either way, the story from here on is set up to show that Abraham is the patriarch of Israel - for good reason.

 

[Sayre]

Have you noticed the strange way it talks about the past tense of this "ancient world" elsewhere in the NT?

1 Peter 3:20
to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

2 Peter 3:6
By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.

I really do think this is a mythical ancient world.

 

[dad]

Sorry, you've failed. Your favourite book, the very word of your god (apparently), fails to mention anything about your pet theory of all the physical laws in the universe changing 5000 years ago.

False. The differences in nature are manifold and listed.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

False. The differences in nature are manifold and listed.

Where?

 

[dad]

Where?

Just about anywhere things were recorded. The flood, the garden, etc etc. We do not live with spirits now, or have trees that grow in weeks, or see continent sized mass move without great heat, or live many many many many centuries..etc.

 

[dad]

Dad - are you using 2 Peter 2 to defend your idea?

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh[c] and despise authority.

If you are using these verses, then we may almost agree. I take this verse as pretty strong indication that anything flood related, and before... is some kind of mythical "ancient world" that never actually existed but formed a common prehistory for the people of Israel. Yes, S&G and Lot are included with Noah and his sons.

Jesus cleared up any doubt Noah existed. The verses you list are fine, but don't really deal in the past nature. They are more like a fast rewind.

The character Lot seems to be a back story to explain Israel's perception of the Moabites.

No. Jesus also said this..

Lu 17:32 -Remember Lot's wife. That was not a call to remember Moabites or discuss a so called Israeli perception.

Lot, and the story of S&G, ends at the end of Gen 19. The comparison between Lot and Abraham seems to serve a similar function as the comparison between Saul and David.

Stop dreaming in technicolor.

Either way, the story from here on is set up to show that Abraham is the patriarch of Israel - for good reason.

Right, a stark warning to pervs of all generations. So?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Just about anywhere things were recorded. The flood, the garden, etc etc. We do not live with spirits now, or have trees that grow in weeks, or see continent sized mass move without great heat, or live many many many many centuries..etc.

So again you admit the bible doesn't say that all the physical laws in the universe changed 5000 years ago. Not mentioned at all. The biggest news in history just missing from your favourite book. Something of an oversight from the authors. Or perhaps it's because you're just making it up as you go along. Hmm, who would have thought?

 

[dad]

So again you admit the bible doesn't say that all the physical laws in the universe changed 5000 years ago.

It says a lot of things about life that could not happen in this nature. There is also some parts that may allude to the nature change. There are also parts that tell of a universe change in the future. One cannot deny that this state is temporal.

The biggest news in history just missing from your favourite book.

Not really. The calendar is set to that.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

It says a lot of things about life that could not happen in this nature. There is also some parts that may allude to the nature change. There are also parts that tell of a universe change in the future. One cannot deny that this state is temporal.

That is all supposition. Nowhere does it say that all the physical laws in the whole universe changed 5000 years ago as you do. If true, this would merit a chapter to itself from even the most slipshod of authors. It would hardly be omitted. Your book omits it. You've defeated yourself. It happens repeatedly. Just let you blather away and you fall into holes you've dug for yourself. Dad, defeated by himself, again.

Not really. The calendar is set to that.

5000 years ago? No, I don't think so.

 

[dad]

That is all supposition. Nowhere does it say that all the physical laws in the whole universe changed 5000 years ago as you do. If true, this would merit a chapter to itself from even the most slipshod of authors. It would hardly be omitted. Your book omits it. You've defeated yourself. It happens repeatedly.

That is fine. If you believe the book describes a nature that is the same as today, be my guest! We might ask you how waters were separated from land in creation week without heat being created to kill life? How did men live 980 years? How trees grow to fruition in weeks? How did angels marry women? Unless you can explain this you have failed. How could all this and more happen in this present state world??

Hoo ha!

 

[Mr Strawberry]

That is fine. If you believe the book describes a nature that is the same as today, be my guest! We might ask you how waters were separated from land in creation week without heat being created to kill life? How did men live 980 years? How trees grow to fruition in weeks? How did angels marry women? Unless you can explain this you have failed. How could all this and more happen in this present state world??

Hoo ha!

And the bible doesn't tell you. Quite an oversight from the authors!

 

[TLK Valentine]

That is fine. If you believe the book describes a nature that is the same as today, be my guest!

What you've got there is a book where Gods, angels, demons, etc., tended to walk among us and used their powers to alter nature's laws would do so arbitrarily.

That they no longer do so is a consequence of their own capricious natures, not any change in nature itself.

We might ask you how waters were separated from land in creation week without heat being created to kill life?

See above.

How did men live 980 years?

See above.

How trees grow to fruition in weeks?

See above.

How did angels marry women?

What's so big about getting married, anyway?

If there is an issue, See above.

Unless you can explain this you have failed. How could all this and more happen in this present state world?

It's easy if you believe in a God who can change the world -- those who don't, need the world to change itself.

 

[dad]

And the bible doesn't tell you. Quite an oversight from the authors!

It does tell us that the differences existed, and we now know that the differences are too big to fit into this nature. There are other clues, but I have no intention of discussing them with an unbeliever, thanks.

 

[dad]

What you've got there is a book where Gods, angels, demons, etc., tended to walk among us and used their powers to alter nature's laws would do so arbitrarily.

Nope. They still walk, but I don't see them living together and marrying, do you? Like us, spirits have laws. At this time, the laws on earth do not allow the same sort of direct mingling. Yes angels are around, usually we are unaware of them. Demons are around, but we do not see them parading on the street, unless it is in some person or etc.

What's so big about getting married, anyway?

It requires contact. We also see that at the time of Babel, mankind knew of a spiritual level not so high above earth. I don't see one now...you?

It's easy if you believe in a God who can change the world -- those who don't, need the world to change itself.

Never happen.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Nope. They still walk, but I don't see them living together and marrying, do you?

What would it look like if they did -- do you know?

Like us, spirits have laws. At this time, the laws on earth do not allow the same sort of direct mingling.

According to who? You?

Show me the law that says they are unable to do this.

Yes angels are around, usually we are unaware of them. Demons are around, but we do not see them parading on the street, unless it is in some person or etc.

So they've changed tactics -- where once they acted openly, now they're "in the closet," as it were.

If you bothered to read your Bible, you'd see that they also acted covertly at times in the past, when only a select few people were astute enough to recognize them -- clearly from your assertion that they are no longer visible, you're not such a person.

It requires contact. We also see that at the time of Babel, mankind knew of a spiritual level not so high above earth. I don't see one now...you?

I see it everywhere I look -- you keep looking up in the sky for something that's right in front of you.

I'd feel sorry for such blindness, but you make it too amusing to watch.

 

[dad]

What would it look like if they did -- do you know?

It would look like people touching and having sex.

According to who? You?

You thought heaven was lawless!!!!!?? Or hell?

Show me the law that says they are unable to do this.

Face the facts, if you claim an angel is on your shoulder I would think you were nuts.

So they've changed tactics -- where once they acted openly, now they're "in the closet," as it were.

No, more than that. I do not see in the closet marriages or babies from angels..you?

If you bothered to read your Bible, you'd see that they also acted covertly at times in the past, when only a select few people were astute enough to recognize them -- clearly from your assertion that they are no longer visible, you're not such a person.

How covertly was the angel guarding the way to the tree of life acting? No idea why you are conflating states here!? The past is past and the present is now. It is not one size fits all.

I see it everywhere I look -- you keep looking up in the sky for something that's right in front of you.

Call us when you come down to earth I guess.

I'd feel sorry for such blindness, but you make it too amusing to watch.

Some think they see, but are blind. I prefer to go by how close they are to God's navigation system of His word to man. His word lights our way, and gives us eyes to see and ears to hear. Top that!

 

[Mr Strawberry]

It does tell us that the differences existed

No it doesn't, that's your whole problem, it says nothing about all the physical laws of nature changing suddenly 5000 years ago. That is your fantasy, and yours alone.

, and we now know that the differences are too big to fit into this nature.

The bible authors thought they were describing things that were entirely plausible. If they hadn't they would have mentioned that all the laws in the physical universe suddenly changed 5000 years ago, but they didn't.

There are other clues, but I have no intention of discussing them with an unbeliever, thanks.

Lol, clues? Clues which you won't share because they're so laughable. The reason you don't want to discuss it is because you made the fundamental mistake of stating that all the physical laws changed 5000 years ago, without thinking about the glaring problem that your favourite book, the book you base your entire fantasy world on, doesn't know anything about it. Here's a gun, dad, there's your foot. Happy shooting.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It would look like people touching and having sex.

Well, there's certainly no shortage of that -- why did you think it wasn't happening?

You thought heaven was lawless!!!!!?? Or hell?

So show me the law.

Face the facts, if you claim an angel is on your shoulder I would think you were nuts.

Well, that's your opinion -- but only a product of your own spiritual blindness.

No, more than that. I do not see in the closet marriages or babies from angels..you?

How do you know what a baby from an angel would look like? You could be surrounded by them and not know it.

How covertly was the angel guarding the way to the tree of life acting?

You tell me -- what did it look like?

No idea why you are conflating states here!? The past is past and the present is now. It is not one size fits all.

Because you say so, or because you desperately need it to be so?

PROTIP: You're blathering.

Call us when you come down to earth I guess.

Keep guessing, dad -- you'll keep missing the truth.

Some think they see, but are blind. I prefer to go by how close they are to God's navigation system of His word to man. His word lights our way, and gives us eyes to see and ears to hear. Top that!

You're blathering again.

You have no idea what an angel looks like, what a child of an angel would look like, and yet, because you claim you've never seen one, you announce that they are gone.

And you call others blind? There's nothing to top; you've got nothing.

 

[lesliedellow]

It is about time Dad came clean, and admitted that he is really an atheist; trying to parody a hick creationist from the southern United States, but not succeeding because he overdoes it.