Philosophy has no meaning for "Christians"

[cube66]

It's all in the good book, in all it's narrow-minded, static glory.

Christians need not learn to ask "Why?" and "What for?".
Faith is there to fill in the gap for rational thought.

It's all in his plan... just fall back in line...
stop being so rebellious.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

It's all in the good book, in all it's narrow-minded, static glory.

Christians need not learn to ask "Why?" and "What for?".
Faith is there to fill in the gap for rational thought.

It's all in his plan... just fall back in line...
stop being so rebellious.

The bible is based on philosophy.

You obviously have no understanding of philosophical history. Its an answer to the questions "Why?" and "what for?" just as Plato's "world of ideas" answers "Why" and "what for?". The only difference is that Plato doesnt have as many followers, and many of his arguments have been challenged, or brought into religious ideology, only in recent years(in historical standpoints) has plato been challenged. This is quite evident in the bible's history too. Though we may not know the first author, we know that do to it being the center or focal point of belief in the philosophy of the western world till the enlightenment, its challenge has been almost none. Only in our recent times have we been able to challenge the bible without going underground, and it will be challenged just like any other book of philosophy in history, with fundamentalist believers of that philosophy who have strayed from the path of philosophical reasoning in the quest for absolute truth(which is impossible) and those who still may be members of christianity, but are still open to logical evidence to disprove it just as i am for my association with atheism(I say association in the fact that i only believe in the atheist ideology because of my view of humanism, which holds many aspects of existentialism. I associate myself with existentialism, primarily the atheistic humanism it proposes into my philosophy.) It is treated just as any other philosophical movement, but only in recent times can this treatment be utilized. This is my opinion on the matter anyway.

 

[f0rk3d]

I can agree with that EPE. I think that what he was doing was illustrating that, while attempting to provide philosophical answers, it does so only on the authority of the source rather than, say, deduction or induction, rationality or logic.

There are some philosophical sayings in there, some stories as well, but as far as establishing any extrinsic truth to the philosophy which is in the Bible, the authors of each book within have failed by ancient as well as modern standards.

 

[Adammi]

It's all in the good book, in all it's narrow-minded, static glory.

Christians need not learn to ask "Why?" and "What for?".
Faith is there to fill in the gap for rational thought.

It's all in his plan... just fall back in line...
stop being so rebellious.

I would disagree, after all there are entire books of the Bible dedicated to the "love of wisdom".

 

[randomman]

I believe a real revelation from God would excite all aspects of our humanity; instincts, feelings, reason, ... etc

 

[Solidlyhere]

Gee, cube66, do you think that all Christians are "addicted" to the Bible?

I have a REAL Life.
I can read the Bible, if and when I choose to.

I can also read other books.
So, when you suggest: Philosophy has no meaning for "Christians" I just chuckle.
I read other things, and devise my Philosophy.
There are (probably) a few people who can't see beyond a Bible, but they are surely in the minority.

So, I guess there are some Christians who might fit your statement: Christians need not learn to ask "Why?" and "What for?". But most people are REAL people: We question ... we wonder . . . we search for meaning.

 

[Adammi]

Gee, cube66, do you think that all Christians are "addicted" to the Bible?

I have a REAL Life.
I can read the Bible, if and when I choose to.

I can also read other books.
So, when you suggest: Philosophy has no meaning for "Christians" I just chuckle.
I read other things, and devise my Philosophy.
There are (probably) a few people who can't see beyond a Bible, but they are surely in the minority.

So, I guess there are some Christians who might fit your statement: Christians need not learn to ask "Why?" and "What for?". But most people are REAL people: We question ... we wonder . . . we search for meaning.

I agree with solidlyhere.
We were created as logical, rational beings; we were made for the questions. God gave us our brain to use it, not to ignore it.

 

[elman]

It's all in the good book, in all it's narrow-minded, static glory.

Christians need not learn to ask "Why?" and "What for?".
Faith is there to fill in the gap for rational thought.

It's all in his plan... just fall back in line...
stop being so rebellious.

God said come let us reason together and Paul said it was noble to question what you were told. Peter said be ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within you. Christianity is about thinking for yourself and not relying on a man or a group of mem without questioning them.

 

[AWorkInProgress]

It's all in the good book, in all it's narrow-minded, static glory.

Christians need not learn to ask "Why?" and "What for?".
Faith is there to fill in the gap for rational thought.

It's all in his plan... just fall back in line...
stop being so rebellious.

Bible is peice of history or Good news pasted down for each generation. Really it is a testimony and guide for us mortals. Gives lot wisdom, and helps use understand what a wonderful God and Lord we serve. Well Jesus described it best.

Luke 6:46-49
Building on a Solid Foundation

46 “So why do you keep calling me ‘Lord, Lord!’ when you don’t do what I say? 47 I will show you what it’s like when someone comes to me, listens to my teaching, and then follows it. 48 It is like a person building a house who digs deep and lays the foundation on solid rock. When the floodwaters rise and break against that house, it stands firm because it is well built. 49 But anyone who hears and doesn’t obey is like a person who builds a house without a foundation. When the floods sweep down against that house, it will collapse into a heap of ruins.”

Also bible encourages seeking of wisdom and understanding. God wants us to constantly try better understand him, or "seek my face". Solomon wrote it best.

Proverbs 19:8

8 To acquire wisdom is to love oneself;
people who cherish understanding will prosper.

As for people who fall to the bible for answers, there is nothing wrong with that. Just matter of accually seeking those answers instead of saying it as means of escaping debate. If that is what your complaining about then I would agree it is not right. Even Christians are human

Now if you want rational thought to debate with meaning of faith. Really can't, for faith is doing something for God with little to no understanding as to why he asked it. As God clued in to Job, His wisdom is beyond ours.

 

[InTheCloud]

Well boy, I growed up Catholic and Oh My, the love of philosophy was taught o me in my catholic highschool.
Ayn Rand who was an atheist once said "Roman Catholicism is the most Philosophical of world religions". And last time I checked in this forum RCs are a Christian denomination so saying that Christians have no use for philosophy is a bit unjust. I guess that a Anglican or a Lutheran might have the same objections. Rememnber that Christians, like atheists came in a huge variety of currents. You can not judge a book by his cover alone.

 

[Pangaea]

I believe a real revelation from God would excite all aspects of our humanity; instincts, feelings, reason, ... etc

Beautiful!

Rational thought is not the only path to knowledge. Reason is not the only way to understand god.

 

[Defcon]

Philosophy has no meaning for "Christians"

It's all in the good book, in all it's narrow-minded, static glory.

Let's see: Philosophy is the study/discipline dealing with philosophical worldviews (metaphysics, epistemology, and ethics). Now, if you were to claim that philosophy must 'open-minded', you are changing the definition. It seems you are indignant toward the Christian worldview for claiming that the Triune God and His Word provides the only coherent, consistent philosophical worldview. However, this is simply your opinion. Nothing in the definition of 'philosophy' excludes Christianity - only your bias does. Not surprisingly, this 'bias' charge is what you accuse Christianity of when in fact you engage in it as well.

Christians need not learn to ask "Why?" and "What for?".
Faith is there to fill in the gap for rational thought.

First, let me explicitly state that the true definition of Christian faith is not the abandonment of reason or intellect; in fact reason is meaningless outside the Christian worldview.

Second, and let me get this straight - Christians are ignorant because they presuppose the Triune God of Scripture and the truth of His Word? So then, you don't make any assumptions in your worldview? Is that your stance?

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Beautiful!

Rational thought is not the only path to knowledge. Reason is not the only way to understand god.

To explain it, one cannot rely on blind irrational emotional faith to express the depth of the religion.

Good post Defcon, i would of posted something following the dissection of his misunderstanding but i chose not too and would allow an actual religious follower apart of that religion to do it, and i must say good work.

 

[VinceNoir]

Beautiful!

Rational thought is not the only path to knowledge. Reason is not the only way to understand god.

Irrationality does not lead to knowledge.

 

[Pangaea]

Irrationality does not lead to knowledge.

There are other forms of life whom we do not consider to be "rational"...and yet they know things about the world...things we can't know. How do you suppose they are led to knowledge? By way of reason? Instinct? Faith? Perhaps something else?

Maybe the human capacity for rationality hinders our ability to know god...for it causes us to wonder if we really know what we know. Maybe the rest of the world just "knows"!

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Maybe blind emotional zeal cannot explain itself do to its irrational ideology?

 

[VinceNoir]

There are other forms of life whom we do not consider to be "rational"...and yet they know things about the world...things we can't know. How do you suppose they are led to knowledge? By way of reason? Instinct? Faith? Perhaps something else?

What forms of life are you talking about? Humans to my knowldege are the only creatures that are irrational.

Maybe the human capacity for rationality hinders our ability to know god...for it causes us to wonder if we really know what we know. Maybe the rest of the world just "knows"!

Your case for irrationality is, ironically, irrational.

 

[Lifesaver]

Revelation does not exclude rational speculation based on the data of reality.

The distinction between philosophy and theology is very old. It dates from the Middle Ages. Both sciences proceed in a stritctly rational way, that is, by way of arguments, demonstrations, proofs, objections, etc.

But whereas theology accepts, among its premises, truths which can only be known because they have been revealed by God, philosophy admits only what the human mind can reach unaided by Divine revelation.

 

[Defcon]

Revelation does not exclude rational especulation based on the data of reality.

The distinction between philosophy and theology is old. Both proceed in a stritctly rational way, that is, by way of arguments, demonstrations, etc.

But whereas theology accepts, among its premises, truths which we can only know because they have been revealed by God, philosophy admits only what the human mind, unaided by Divine Revelation, can reach.

Sorry, but this is patently false. There is nothing in the definition of philosophy that limits philosophy to a totally secular discipline.

 

[Lifesaver]

But then you create a confusion.
You will be left without any science which deals without reality without Divinely revealed premises. The conclusions you reach will only be acceptable to those who also accept your religious premises.

Keeping philosophy "secular" is actually a great help to theology, because it will show and prove its truths, to the extent it can go, in a way which obliges every rational creature to give their assent to it.
And since there is some overlapping between philosophy and theology, between reason and faith, even unbelievers can be brought to see the truth of many things (the existence of God, the possibility of the immortality of the soul, etc) which theology will develop further.

I am not here saying that the goal of philosophy is bringing people to theology or to religion, but that it is one of the ends it can accomplish.

I may very well start my reasoning with the premise that God became flesh, or that God is a Trinity of Persons. This is usually called "theology". You may call it "philosophy" as you will, just don't confuse it with the other meaning of "philosophy". Afterall, the arguments of the first will fail to persuade anyone who is not already a believer, whereas the arguments of the latter have a universal scope.