Philisophical Text

[TuxThePenguin]

I was looking into Pascals Wager and found a link to a philsophical text I would like to hear if anyone can find fault in it.

** Warning ** The following link may annoy fundimentalists.

I havent been here long so I can't post links yet so you'll have to remove the spaces.

ht tp :/ / w ww. infi dels. or g/libr ary/ modern/richard_carrier/heaven . h tml


PS. all kudos to the author its all (C) him

 

[boolucy]

i agree

 

[Simonline]

I was looking into Pascals Wager and found a link to a philsophical text I would like to hear if anyone can find fault in it.

** Warning ** The following link may annoy fundimentalists.

I havent been here long so I can't post links yet so you'll have to remove the spaces.

ht tp :/ / w ww. infi dels. or g/libr ary/ modern/richard_carrier/heaven . h tml


PS. all kudos to the author its all (C) him

Here's the link done correctly:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/heaven.html

Needless to say, I don't accept the validity of either the assumptions or the conclusions of the article.

Check out the works of such men as Francis A. Schaeffer, Ravi Zacharias, C.S. Lewis, and you'll see what I mean.

Simonline.

 

[billwald]

The fault is that he was living in Catholic France and there was no down side to attending Mass except a loss of time. His wager would not occurred to him if he had been a Jew living in Catholic France. In other words, his risk/benefit analysis was for very specific conditions.

 

[jayem]

Pascal's Wager certainly is specious, but that article does start with a flawed assumption--at least as regards classical Christian doctrine. The author says God rewards those who do good works. Christianity teaches that God rewards those who believe in him, and accept him as their savior (through the personage of Jesus.) Good works follow as a manifestation of God's goodness. But good deeds alone will not be rewarded with eternal life in heaven, or whatever. It's primarily the act of belief which will ensure salvation.

Pascal's Wager falls apart because there are so many different beliefs that one can choose. Making the wrong choice could cause one to lose eternal reward. And there's no clear objective evidence that any particular belief is "correct." If the doctrine of the Mormons is true, then all the traditional Christians will also be damned. If the Catholic church is right, then even if you accept Jesus, you won't go to Paradise if you haven't had a Catholic baptism and observed the sacraments. Beating Pascal's Wager is as unlikely as winning a lottery. Dozens, or hundreds ways to lose--only one way to win.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

this article just screams, the verse Matthew 25:24-30.

Then he who had recieved one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered sead. 25 'and I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.' 26 "but his lord answered and said to him, ' you wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered sead. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have recieved back my own with interest. 28 'Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him that has ten talents. 29 'for to every one who has, more will be given, and he will have in abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 'And cast that unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The "safe bet" is what that servent took, it didn't turn out to be that safe, did it? We are to love all and send a healing, saving light thru the world, by the good news, and the love of Jesus.

 

[ames61]

My understanding of the purpose of Pascal's Wager is that basically the better bet is to believe that there is a God. Period. This article makes so many assumptions, most of which are wrong, it makes my head hurt.

Pascal's Wager falls apart because there are so many different beliefs that one can choose. Making the wrong choice could cause one to lose eternal reward. . . . If the Catholic church is right, then even if you accept Jesus, you won't go to Paradise if you haven't had a Catholic baptism and observed the sacraments.

By the by, the Catholic Church doesn't specify that the only way to heaven is a Catholic baptism and to observe the sacraments. As a matter of fact the Church has never declared anyone to definitively be in hell. She teaches the ways she knows that Christ taught her, but even He said there are other sheep . . .

Peace to you.
Amy

 

[boolucy]

god b wiv u x

 

[TuxThePenguin]

As a matter of fact the Church has never declared anyone to definitively be in hell.

Did not previous popes ex-communicate people (sometimes for selfish reasons) and doesn't that imply that they will go to hell?

.. I accept the point about how people qualify for heaven as stated by jayem.

I am still intrigued by the question made in point 2 of the text. Can someone in Heaven commit an evil act? As pointed out I cant see a reason to assume that given free will those that have "qualified" for heaven will not do an evil act for all eternity.

 

[boolucy]

hi x

 

[ames61]

Did not previous popes ex-communicate people (sometimes for selfish reasons) and doesn't that imply that they will go to hell?

Actually people excommunicate themselves when they are no longer in union with Church teachings (excommunion=no longer in union). Church officials merely state that fact. But to come back into the church one only need make a good confession, and abide by her teachings. Even if one dies excommunicated it does not mean one is going to hell, simply that one never reunited with the Church (not God).

I am still intrigued by the question made in point 2 of the text. Can someone in Heaven commit an evil act? As pointed out I cant see a reason to assume that given free will those that have "qualified" for heaven will not do an evil act for all eternity.

On earth we have free will, but clouded vision, so we chose what we think is right for us (i.e, I steal because I think I need the money) but we are confused. In heaven we will still have free will, but we will have beatific vision, completely clear vision of the love of God. We will no longer be confused about what is good for us and we will no longer choose evil, we will only chose what is in union with God's desire, which will be what is best for us. my 2 cents.

In Christ,
amy

 

[]RiSeN[]

I was looking into Pascals Wager and found a link to a philsophical text I would like to hear if anyone can find fault in it.

** Warning ** The following link may annoy fundimentalists.

I havent been here long so I can't post links yet so you'll have to remove the spaces.

ht tp :/ / w ww. infi dels. or g/libr ary/ modern/richard_carrier/heaven . h tml


PS. all kudos to the author its all (C) him

The views and ideas expressed in this text are complete nonsense. What this text lacks in truth it makes up for in arrogance. The reasoning behind this conception leads to believe the author has no knowledge whatsoever of God's qualities or His Word, the bible.