Phil 2:6 - Co-Equal - Oneness

[Maria Billingsley]

If you read the OP, you'd know I'm not. JJ

Trinitarian ?

 

[BrotherJJ]

Yes, form is not substance/essence. In your OP, you seem to think they are the same thing.

How about we, for the sake of agreement, just use the word form. All the best, JJ

 

[BrotherJJ]

Trinitarian ?

The OP answers that question & I answer it again in post #5.

 

[trophy33]

How about we, for the sake of agreement, just use the word form. All the best, JJ

OK, rephrase then this, so it makes more sense:

The Word/Son/Jesus preexisted of the same Form/substance/essence, we humans are all of the same Form/substance/essence, substance. However, we're all not the same in authority/rank, job, military etc.

 

[BrotherJJ]

OK, reprhase then this, so it make more sense:

The OP stated my views & understood many would disagree. You're free to disagree with any commentary [my notes] I posted. I'm not going to edit the post to line up with others beliefs. JJ

 

[trophy33]

I will not, deal with it.

You are obviously in a wrong forum section, reading all your (kind of unpleasant) answers to people, here.

 

[BrotherJJ]

You are obviously in a wrong forum section, reading all your (kind of unpleasant) answers to people, here.

The apostles had disagreements, sometimes they may seem unpleasant. If I've posted in the wrong forum. I trust, mods will relocate to the one.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The OP answers that question & I answer it again in post #5.

Ok, so you are not a Trinitarian. So you are Oneness. Thank you for engaging. Be blessed.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Ok, so you are not a Trinitarian. So you are Oneness. Thank you for engaging. Be blessed.

You're free to agree, disagree & believe whatever you like.

 

[Andrewn]

I understand many may disagree with my view. No harm, no foul, that’s your privilege.

The Father and the Son are One God.

Phil 2:6 - Co-Equal - Oneness

Php 2:6 who, [Jesus Christ] though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be exploited,
7 but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
being born in human likeness.
And being found in human form,

The word morphe/form occurs only one more time in the NT:

Mar 16:12 After that, He appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking along on their way to the country.

Php 2:6 clearly teaches that the pre-incarnate Christ was God with form. He was the form of God that OT saints like Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Gideon and others encountered.

Other passages like Exo 33:20; Joh 1:18; Joh 5:37; Joh 6:46; 1Ti 6:16; and 1Jo 4:12 imply that the Father is God without form and cannot be seen by people, for example:

Joh 5:37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form (eidos).

Not that there are 2 Gods but that the Son is the expression of the mystery of the One God, who communicates with people.

Anyway, it looks like three gods is your answer, but I'm not going to vilify you for that if this was your worry. You're entitled to state your beliefs just like the rest of us.

He's a Tritheist. You solved the riddle that @BrotherJJ posted before anyone else . The CF appear to have quite a few Tritheists. Perhaps Oneness believers can also be allowed to create balance!!

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Here is how I see it

The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are each/all God.

Father is God: Jn 6:27, Rom 1:7, 1 Pet 1:2

Son is God: Isa 7:14 & 9:6, Micah 5:2, Matt 1:23, Jn 1:1 & 20:28, 1 Tim 3:16 Titus 2:13 Rom 9:5 Rev 1:8.

Holy Spirit is God: Ps 139:7-8, Acts 5:3-4 & 13:2, Eph 4:30, 1 Cor 2:10-11, 3:16, 12:4-7, 2 Cor 13:14

This is understood as the Godhead, Trinitarian. Yet, your first post presents Oneness. Needless to say a bunch of us are confused. I know you do not want to label yourself but there are only two options. Is this a third option ? You did say many of us will disagree with you. Thank you in advance for your clarification.

 

[BrotherJJ]

This is understood as the Godhead, Trinitarian. Yet, your first post presents Oneness. Needless to say a bunch of us are confused. I know you do not want to label yourself but there are only two options. Is this a third option ? You did say many of us will disagree with you. Thank you in advance for your clarification.

If it helps you, I'll ascribe to Godhead.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The Word/Son/Jesus preexisted of the same Form/substance/essence, we humans are all of the same Form/substance/essence, substance. However, we're all not the same in authority/rank, job, military etc.

Can you further explain this? Sounds like you are saying we are like Jesus other than rank ? Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh we are not gods.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Can you further explain this? Sounds like you are saying we are like Jesus other than rank ? Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh we are not gods.

Post doesn't claim we are God's. I believe many posted scriptures in the OP, point out Father & Son aren't co-equal in all things. There are many, here are a couple:

1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(MY NOTE: Man is Head/has authority over the woman, Christ is Head/has authority over the man & God the Father is Head/has authority over God the Son)

Pay special attention vs 28!

1 Cor 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

When all is complete/fulfilled the Son will what? SUBJECT, all things INCLUDING Himself, unto His Father, whom gave it all to him.

Within our universe, Christ, will FOREVER remain King of Kings & Lord of Lords. Why? Because the Father, rewarded his faithful/obedient redemptive works. And has given all things within our universe.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Can you further explain this? Sounds like you are saying we are like Jesus other than rank ? Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh we are not gods.

Again, post doesn't claim we are God's. I've had the time to sort thru the post & address some of the co-equal aspects in posted scripture.

Jn 6:38 I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
(NOTE: God the Son/Jesus say's He; came down from heaven to do the will of him/the Father, that sent Him. QUESTION; Typically, isn't the one that sends another the higher authority.)

Heb 10:12 (C) after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
(NOTE: It's the risen/glorified God the Son/Jesus, that sits at the right hand of God His Father. QUESTION; is the right hand man typically an equal?)

Scripture states 4 TIMES: "God the Father" said to "God the Son" Sit at my right hand. I don't believe the Risen/Glorified Son/Christ doesn't sit down at His own right hand.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
(NOTE: The LORD isn't talking to Lord/HIMSELF! Also see Ps 110:1, Matt 22;44, Lk 20:43)

Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
(MY NOTE: Is God the Son HIDING this info from Himself? Or is there a higher authority [His Father] that makes the call?)

Rev 5:7 And he (Vs 5, the Loin of the tribe of Juda. Vs 6, the Lamb) came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
(NOTE: This is the risen/glorified God the Son/Lamb/Jesus. He takes the book out of the hand of God the Father. QUESTION; Who is sitting on the throne handing out the book?)

Rom 8:17 We're children, "heirs also", "heirs of God & fellow heirs with Christ
(NOTE: Believers are fellow heirs of God the Father, with/thru Christ. If Christ is an HEIR, doesn't the Father have authority/out rank the Son?)

Heb 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, thru whom also He made the world
(NOTE: God the Father APPOINTED God the Son HEIR of ALL things within our realm. QUESTION; Equal? Or does the Father have authority/out rank in order to APPOINT the Son?)

Jn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(MY NOTE: Jesus/God the Son say's, I ascend to My Father & My God. QUESTION; Equal? Or is the Father in authority/out rank the Son?)

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
(MY NOTE: Jesus/God the Son say's, I will write the name of My God [Jesus call the Father, His God]. QUESTION; Equal? Or does the Father [Jesus stated as being His God] have authority over/out rank the Son?)

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Can you further explain this? Sounds like you are saying we are like Jesus other than rank ? Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh we are not gods.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

It was written in their law, I am a Gentile so...

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

What part of your post is the problem, or is it because you cannot recite something outside of the scripture for others?

Might be best just to adress the scriptures posted and not the person, which often happens when they cannot do the former.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Jesus said,

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Jesus also prayed that they too would be one as he and the Father are

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee.
Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Which is,

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;
and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

So one in that way.

Just as Jesus said I and my Father are one as he asks them

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Becaus as Jesus said in John 16:32 ... I am not alone, because the Father is with me

Likewise,

2 Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Der Alte]

form & synonyms

1. the visible shape or configuration of something.
   "the form, color, and texture of the tree"
   synonyms
   shape · configuration · formation · conformation · structure · construction · arrangement · disposition · appearance · outward form/appearance ·

Posting the definition of the English word "form" does not necessarily give us the meaning of the Greek word μορφη/morfe.
In classical Greek morphe also had the meaning "kind, sort."
Jesus existed in one form, Philippians 2, vs. 6, but took upon himself another form, vs. 7.
What was Jesus’ form before? If he was literally, actually a man afterward what was he literally, actually before?

Philippians 2:6-11 6. Who, being [continual existence] in the form [μορφη] of God, thought it not robbery [something to be grasped] to be equal with God:
(Greek Interlinear) Philippians 2:6-11 ος {who,} εν {in [the]} μορφη {form} θεου {of god} υπαρχων {subsisting,} ουχ {not} αρπαγμον {something to be used to his own advantage} ηγησατο το {esteemed it} ειναι {the being} ισα {equal} θεω {with god;}​

The verb ειναι, translated ”to be,” in the KJV, which appears to be a future tense in English, is a present infinitive, not a future tense. “the being equal with god,” was a, then, present reality not something considered and rejected.

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him[self] the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:​

Jesus’ earthly ministry occurred between verses, 7 and 8. Where the one who was equal with God, vs. 6, the one who, acting upon himself, became flesh, cf. John 1:14, made himself of no reputation, vs. 7, cf. Heb 2:17, took upon himself the form of a servant, and was in the likeness of men, vs. 7. After which God, not merely exalted him, but “highly exalted” him, and glorified him with the same glory he had with the Father before the world existed (John 17:5)
It was here where all the things anti-Trinitarians cannot comprehend happened, e.g. “If Jesus was God, why didn’t he know the hour of his return?” etc., etc., etc.

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.​

If Jesus was only a mere human being, how does a human being, “humble himself and become obedient unto death?” All mankind is appointed to death, no obedience or humbling involved! Heb 9:27. Were the criminals who were crucified with Jesus also obedient, did they also humble themselves unto death on the cross?

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, cf. [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, cf. [ יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] to the glory of God the Father.​

In verses 10,11 Paul applies Isaiah 45:23, which refers to יהוה/YHWH], to Jesus as I have shown above!

The Committee on Bible Translation worked at updating the New International Version of the Bible to be published in 2011
In it's notes under "Progress in Scholarship" it discusses the following change:

When the NIV was first translated, the meaning of the rare Greek word αρπαγμον /harpagmos, rendered ‟something to be grasped,” in Philippians 2:6 was uncertain. But further study has shown that the word refers to something that a person has in their possession but chooses not to use to their own advantage. The updated NIV reflects this new information, making clear that Jesus really was equal with God when he determined to become a human for our sake: ‟[Christ Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.”​

See full translators notes at: Bible Gateway NIV Translator’s Notes​

A short excerpt from the 25 page Harvard theological review article αρπαγμον /harpagmos, by Roy Hoover, referenced in the NIV.

‘O petros de arpagmon ton dia stavrou thanton epoieito dia tas soterious elpidas”
(And Peter considered death by means of the cross harpagmon on account of the hope of salvation, Comm in Luc 6)
“Tines…ton thanaton arpagma themenoi ten ton dussebon moxtherias”
(Since some regarded death as harpagma in comparison with the depravity of ungodly men. Hist. Eccl VCIII,12.2)
Not only are arpagma and arpagmos used synonymously in these two statements, but they are used synonymously by the same author in reference to the same object—death—and in expressions whose form precisely parallels that of the arpagmos remark in Phil 2:6.
What [Eusebius] wants to say, rather, is that because of the hope of salvation crucifixion was not a horror to be shunned, but an advantage to be seized.
“Arpagma” is used exactly this way in Hist. Eccl. VIII,12.2. At this point Eusebius is recounting the sufferings of Christians in periods of persecution. Some believers in order to escape torture threw themselves down from rooftops. There can be no suggestion of “robbery” or of violent self-assertion in this remark, nor can self-inflicted death under such circumstances be considered an unanticipated windfall.
Roy W. Hoover, Harvard Theological Review (1971) 95-119, pg. 108
Link to: Hoover Article​

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

He is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD, when they looked at Jesus exterior form and asked him to "shew us the Father" they were knowing him after the flesh (VISIBLE) rather then His person.

Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him,

Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?
he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

And since he is the express image of his person (Heb 1:3)

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:
and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

They were beholding Jesus Christ after the flesh (his form) knowing him after the flesh which is not knowing the Father in that particular sense of seeing. Jesus Christ is the image of "the invisible" (not visible) God

2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:
yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh,
yet now henceforth know we him no more.