Pew report shows American Christian numbers in decline

[Sophrosyne]

Ok it is not letting me quote now..... I fail to see the definition of agnostic would be anything related or associated with being a Christian. In fact I see someone who is agnostic as NOT a Christian to begin with.

 

[HammerOfThor]

In fact I see someone who is agnostic as NOT a Christian to begin with.

Why not? They believe in christianity but don't believe that it is knowable. Faith and knowledge aren't the same anyways.

 

[Red Fox]

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 3:28

In other words, I believe the promises of God and am thus saved.

If I may ask, again respectfully, do you think that this applies to other people who also claim to be christian and who also believe in the promises of God? I'm sincerely asking because I find myself, once again, thoroughly confused at any proclamation or insinuation that certain people aren't Christians or can't be Christians, even though they too believe they are and they also believe in the promises of God. I'm not trying to argue with you or question your beliefs or cause disruption in this thread. I'm sincerely asking and I'm sincerely, once again, trying to understand all of this. It is very confusing and frustrating for me.

 

[Booko]

Since it is God who adds to the church, those who leave were never truly saved. There are lots of tares amongst the wheat.

Must be nice to know so much.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Why not? They believe in christianity but don't believe that it is knowable. Faith and knowledge aren't the same anyways.

Agnostics don't believe in Christianity to begin with, they don't believe in God and consider God unknowable when in fact the premise of Christianity is that Jesus IS knowable and IS God.

 

[HammerOfThor]

Agnostics don't believe in Christianity to begin with, they don't believe in God and consider God unknowable when in fact the premise of Christianity is that Jesus IS knowable and IS God.

No, many agnostics believe in one or the other god, but they don't believe it is possible for anyone to know that a god exists. I consider myself an agnostic theist.

I don't see how the premise of christianity is that god is knowable, I think it's more to do with faith than knowledge, otherwise it would be more like gnostic theism.

 

[Booko]

Ok it is not letting me quote now..... I fail to see the definition of agnostic would be anything related or associated with being a Christian. In fact I see someone who is agnostic as NOT a Christian to begin with.

Well, I'm a Baha'i and I do not believe it is possible to "prove" God exists or that any religion is "true" in the usual stringent sort of way one "proves" things in fields like, say, science.

So yes, that would make me an agnostic.

I choose to be a theist, but it's a matter of faith, not empiricial proof or iron clad reasoning.

Metaphysics is just a messy thing, eh?

 

[Booko]

Anyway, would anyone like to actually read the article and discuss the contents?

Please save "Who is and is not a REAL Christian" for a thread where the OP actually cares to discuss it.

Thanks.

 

[Red Fox]

Well, I'm a Baha'i and I do not believe it is possible to "prove" God exists or that any religion is "true" in the usual stringent sort of way one "proves" things in fields like, say, science.

So yes, that would make me an agnostic.

I choose to be a theist, but it's a matter of faith, not empiricial proof or iron clad reasoning.

Metaphysics is just a messy thing, eh?

I would tend to agree with you, but I'm not a Baha'i. Most interesting.

 

[HammerOfThor]

Anyway, would anyone like to actually read the article and discuss the contents?

What article?

 

[Red Fox]

Anyway, would anyone like to actually read the article and discuss the contents?

Please save "Who is and is not a REAL Christian" for a thread where the OP actually cares to discuss it.

Thanks.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to derail your thread. I'm just trying to understand that particular issue. I apologize.

 

[Booko]

What article?

lol

Well, let's start again:

America’s Changing Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center

 

[Hammster]

So if someone believed those promises and then stopped believing those promises, they were saved and then they weren't, right?

They won't. The only reason someone will believe is because they've been born again. They are given a new heart.


Those that walk away were never saved.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. 1 John 2:19

 

[Booko]

Even as their numbers decline, American Christians – like the U.S. population as a whole – are becoming more racially and ethnically diverse.

This seems like a movement in a good direction?

I can't help but think if "in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek", surely there shouldn't be black, white, Latino, Asian, or whatever other divisions humans have created amongst themselves.

 

[Red Fox]

lol

Well, let's start again:

America’s Changing Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center

I do follow a religion, it's just not Christianity anymore. However, my husband is christian and our children are also christian.

 

[Hammster]

lol

Well, let's start again:

America’s Changing Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center

At best you can say that those who identify themselves as Christians is declining.

 

[Booko]

At best you can say that those who identify themselves as Christians is declining.

On the contrary, there is a great deal more to the research than what's in the title.

For example, other religions are not declining. Whether that's a matter of immigration or having more children or conversions is important, but I think not studied.

It should be of significance that the shift to identifying as "None" is not a factor merely among the youth, but is present in generations across the board, including Boomers, though the older the generation, the less shift there is.

However, generational replacement is by no means the only reason that religious “nones” are growing and Christians are declining. In addition, people in older generations are increasingly disavowing association with organized religion. About a third of older Millennials (adults currently in their late 20s and early 30s) now say they have no religion, up nine percentage points among this cohort since 2007, when the same group was between ages 18 and 26. Nearly a quarter of Generation Xers now say they have no particular religion or describe themselves as atheists or agnostics, up four points in seven years. Baby Boomers also have become slightly but noticeably more likely to identify as religious “nones” in recent years.

Well, questions remain, but as the end of the Pew piece says, there is additional research that will be released through the year, so I guess we have to wait on that.

I do think the % shift is significant - far faster than I expected it to be, if I'm honest about it.

 

[HammerOfThor]

They won't.

Prove it, please.

Those that walk away were never saved

So if they never believed then they were just lying about believing the whole time?

 

[Red Fox]

This seems like a movement in a good direction?

I can't help but think if "in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek", surely there shouldn't be black, white, Latino, Asian, or whatever other divisions humans have created amongst themselves.

I don't know. I'm not willing to give up my NDN identity to be known as a christian. I have already survived years of cultural genocide against my heritage and ancestry growing up and even when I was still in the church. I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to put myself through that kind of torment and unhappiness again.

 

[Theway]

What it is is what the Bible says. But, just out of curiosity, doesn't the person leaving question their salvation? If they question it and decide it doesn't exist, then why should we not do the same.

That is not to say that they truly aren't saved, but since nothing can separate us from God, then if they are separated, either they were never God's, or they are struggling, in which case, they will return.

Well thats a convenient way to cover all the holes in a heretical OSAS theology.

However that leaves you with the problem of admitting that there is no way to tell whether yourself, or anybody else is saved. At least of course until the salvation lotto once you die.