Petition against Nehemia Gordon from the Karaites

[ContraMundum]

Karaites have been quite popular among Messianics. A lot of messianics despise Rabbinic Judaism because Orthodoxy refuses to accept Jesus as messiah. In the attempt to distance themselves from Rabbinic Judaism, Messianics have found themselves close to Karaites as they throw insults towards Rabbinic Judaism.

Well, that I find interesting too. Why would Karaites be interested in even talking to Messianics? Maybe some Messianics are attracted to the Karaites for the reasons you state, but also I wonder if in finding agreement with them that they would somehow hope to be validated as Jews and find a back-door into conversion?

I don't know, just thinking out loud.

Contra, you'll find that Karaites have been around for some time and have recently found a growing movement. But since they outright reject any sort of halacha, you'll find that their historical relevance is hard to verify.

They claim on their site to be a great influence on Judaism and a challenge to Rabbinic Judaism. Having obviously studied it, do you think this is a delusion of grandeur?

 

[ChavaK]

A lot of messianics despise Rabbinic Judaism because Orthodoxy refuses to accept Jesus as messiah.

Of course neither do Reform or Conservative or Renewal or whatever...I would think all those would be classified as being "Rabbinic Judaism"
(ie, any sect of Judaism that doesn't acccept Jesus as messiah).

 

[ChavaK]

There's a whole group of them in Israel.

Only stat I could find is from 1999 and said there were 30,000
Karaites in Israel. I wonder how many are actually Jews, and what the
number is now.

Nehemia Gordon has been the spearhead of the movement for about a decade or longer now.

It's interesting though that he has chosen
to align himself with the Messianic movement.

 

[ChavaK]

do you think this is a delusion of grandeur?

Yes, I think so, after reading the entire paragraph:

Of all the Jewish sects that appeared during the long history of Judaism and they were many – none was able to have as serious an effect on the Jewish mainstream as the sect of Karaism. Karaism, whose adherents are called Karaites, strongly challenged the mainstream and, to some extent, threatened its existence, and was able at times to attract 40 percent of the whole Jewish population. Karaism is the only Jewish sect besides that of the Samaritans that still exists today.

Not quite sure what they mean by this last paragraph.

 

[visionary]

I don't know if this helps but Nehemia Gordon wrote...

The man who wrote that petition was a Christian who converted to Conservative Judaism, then became a Karaite Jew, and the last I heard had converted to Islam...

 

[GuardianShua]

I don't know if this helps but Nehemia Gordon wrote...

The man who wrote that petition was a Christian who converted to Conservative Judaism, then became a Karaite Jew, and the last I heard had converted to Islam...

If that is true then that would show how flaky the person was.

 

[ChavaK]

Correct ... Karaites do not accept the Oral Law as binding like Torah is, however, Jewish customs which do not contradict Tanach may be acceptable.

Judaism isn't a pick and choose religion, which is the problem I would have with Karaites if that is what they are doing....

 

[Lulav]

Contra you have been here long enough to remember we used to have a member here that was Karaite. His name was Steve Caruso. He was some kind of Aramaic Scholar.

Let's see if I can find him here.

 

[Lulav]

Found him!

He went by the name of TheThadman

Steve Caruso
(a.k.a. "The Thadman")

Webmaster & Author, AramaicNT.org

 

[ContraMundum]

Contra you have been here long enough to remember we used to have a member here that was Karaite. His name was Steve Caruso. He was some kind of Aramaic Scholar.

Let's see if I can find him here.

Believe it or not I have no recollection of the man.

I was thinking later that simchat_torah was Karaite, but then I remembered that he was too smart for that.

 

[visionary]

Believe it or not I have no recollection of the man.

I was thinking later that simchat_torah was Karaite, but then I remembered that he was too smart for that.

Yes, he is.

 

[fschmidt]

I like what Nehemia Gordon says. He has a good video: The Hebrew Yeshua vs. the Greek Jesus

 

[rsduncan]

This is a fascinating discussion going on here. We're truly blessed here in MJ!!!

 

[mizzdy]

This whole thing with Nehemia was started by Andrew Gabriel Roth and Baruk ben Daniel, it was and is an ongoing attempt to take over GLC which Daniel seems to have succeed in when all the Hebrew roots teachers and/or Messianic teachers were either fired or quit over it all. Its all so sad when power and money and I dare say a woman, are the center of everything. Roth started the stuff by suggesting that GLC not have a Jewish guy on that doesn't believe in the Messiah, didn't mater that the owners loved the book and loved having them both on to talk about it. And that Roth was more than willing to stand in as a Messianic Jew. Sadly Tommie and Al didn't see it coming and are just going along with the daughter over the ones that have made GLC a favorite place to watch good teachings. From what I understand the differences between Karaite and Orthodox is the oral law which Nehemia doesn't use. It really is very sad how it all came about.

shalom,
Mizz

 

[yedida]

I don't think I get GLC or else the Messianic teachings didn't bear up, but I think it's I don't get the station. Didn't know of the troubles. Sorry to hear of it, but not at all surprised.
I remember one time on some "gospel" channel, maybe Insp, I saw, who I think was Roth and someone who appeared to be a Jewish Rabbi, SELLING talliyot claiming they had been prayed over, blessed and would provide healing for a "donation" of such and such an amount. I wept. Everybody, hop on the "new" bandwagon, let's see how long it takes us to sully it up!!
I'm sorry, I do not trust TVangelists, no matter what flavor they come in.

 

[mizzdy]

I don't think I get GLC or else the Messianic teachings didn't bear up, but I think it's I don't get the station. Didn't know of the troubles. Sorry to hear of it, but not at all surprised.
I remember one time on some "gospel" channel, maybe Insp, I saw, who I think was Roth and someone who appeared to be a Jewish Rabbi, SELLING talliyot claiming they had been prayed over, blessed and would provide healing for a "donation" of such and such an amount. I wept. Everybody, hop on the "new" bandwagon, let's see how long it takes us to sully it up!!
I'm sorry, I do not trust TVangelists, no matter what flavor they come in.

One either had to watch it online or get one of their satelites. There were some good teacher on there and some so so teachers but one thing they did was introduce so many to Torah, to the Messianic or hebrew roots way of thinking. Not sure if you know who Brad Scott, Rico Cortes, Bill Cloud and those guys are but they were there teaching. Roth drives me nuts always has, him and his AENT, promoting it as if Aramaic is the only language we can trust. Since he stepped on the scene theres been divisions galore. I don't trust anyone who claims to know it all none of the men I mentioned ever suggest such a thing but always tell people to study it out for themselves instead of taking their word for it. Its just sad to see good people being swindled and used.

shalom,
Mizz

 

[yedida]

One either had to watch it online or get one of their satelites. There were some good teacher on there and some so so teachers but one thing they did was introduce so many to Torah, to the Messianic or hebrew roots way of thinking. Not sure if you know who Brad Scott, Rico Cortes, Bill Cloud and those guys are but they were there teaching. Roth drives me nuts always has, him and his AENT, promoting it as if Aramaic is the only language we can trust. Since he stepped on the scene theres been divisions galore. I don't trust anyone who claims to know it all none of the men I mentioned ever suggest such a thing but always tell people to study it out for themselves instead of taking their word for it. Its just sad to see good people being swindled and used.

shalom,
Mizz

Thank you for your explanation. The three names you mentioned are not completely unknown to me, but I have no real experience with them to make any kind of personal assessment.
I think I got so swallowed up in the Copeland camp so many lifetimes ago that for my own sanity there is a barrier in place now that I have no inclination to even attempt to crack.
For others getting deeply involved with any TVangelist I would advise that if the evangelist himself is not personally reachable for Q&A via phone or email, then run, don't walk to one who is - there are several out there that will personally respond. (That is not a full stamp of approval of being spot on, but I feel they are much safer than the ones who only have reps who respond in their stead. Reps can be deceived just as readily as one sitting in their own living room can be. Even worse, reps can be bought with very nice paychecks)
All just my own personal experiences, and those from mainstream at that. When other things that are up and rolling in my life right now calm down, I will make it a priority to look further into these three. Thanks for bringing them to my remembrance.

 

[mizzdy]

Thank you for your explanation. The three names you mentioned are not completely unknown to me, but I have no real experience with them to make any kind of personal assessment.
I think I got so swallowed up in the Copeland camp so many lifetimes ago that for my own sanity there is a barrier in place now that I have no inclination to even attempt to crack.
For others getting deeply involved with any TVangelist I would advise that if the evangelist himself is not personally reachable for Q&A via phone or email, then run, don't walk to one who is - there are several out there that will personally respond. (That is not a full stamp of approval of being spot on, but I feel they are much safer than the ones who only have reps who respond in their stead. Reps can be deceived just as readily as one sitting in their own living room can be. Even worse, reps can be bought with very nice paychecks)
All just my own personal experiences, and those from mainstream at that. When other things that are up and rolling in my life right now calm down, I will make it a priority to look further into these three. Thanks for bringing them to my remembrance.

I so agree with you! Tv evanglist are one scary bunch of people! and people feed them and feed off of them! The men I mentioned are always willing to hear from anyone with questions, comments, etc. course it might take some time to hear from them with the amount of mail they get. I like teachings and find that in many of those men and more within the Messianic, hebrew roots community and of course theres also flakes out there too. Its sad though cuz GLC used to be the place where people could here these guys free of charge on the net. But there is a new place coming in the next few months as funds allow that will have all these guys and more.

shalom,
Mizz

 

[yedida]

I so agree with you! Tv evanglist are one scary bunch of people! and people feed them and feed off of them! The men I mentioned are always willing to hear from anyone with questions, comments, etc. course it might take some time to hear from them with the amount of mail they get. I like teachings and find that in many of those men and more within the Messianic, hebrew roots community and of course theres also flakes out there too. Its sad though cuz GLC used to be the place where people could here these guys free of charge on the net. But there is a new place coming in the next few months as funds allow that will have all these guys and more.

shalom,
Mizz

Keep me informed. Especially if they get relegated to wee morning hours as I'm usually up till about 5am or so. Not a lot to look at at that hour, so maybe some decent MJ/G teachings would be good. (I'm in Ga, btw.)

 

[aniello]

One either had to watch it online or get one of their satelites. There were some good teacher on there and some so so teachers but one thing they did was introduce so many to Torah, to the Messianic or hebrew roots way of thinking. Not sure if you know who Brad Scott, Rico Cortes, Bill Cloud and those guys are but they were there teaching. Roth drives me nuts always has, him and his AENT, promoting it as if Aramaic is the only language we can trust. Since he stepped on the scene theres been divisions galore. I don't trust anyone who claims to know it all none of the men I mentioned ever suggest such a thing but always tell people to study it out for themselves instead of taking their word for it. Its just sad to see good people being swindled and used.

shalom,
Mizz

Wow! I just read your post, so I called GLC and talked to Lauren(receptionist and old friend) and I am told Brad, Bill, Rico and Tony Robinson have all been booted or pulled out.

I'm in shock, my wife went through the roof. We have been recording them going back as much as 5-6 years, editing and burning the materials to DVDs and giving them out to shut ins and folks without DISH TV or computer access. We have things to record off the satellite automatically.

Anyway, where are they(the guys) going? When? Where? How?

A number of years ago Al and Tommie dumped Sam Peak, whom we know, and as a result lost Rabbi Chaim Richman(Temple Institute), whom we sponsored here in area this past July.

Called bank and cancelled GLCs automatic draw, monthly, on our account.

If you know when and where the guys are coming back on please tell us, ok? PLEASE!

aniello