Peter's Vision

[Der Alte]

Acts 18:4. And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Jews making proselytes among Gentiles was well established. Addressed by Yeshua.
Matthew 23:15. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
The first Gentiles to hear Paul's message in every city was typically those who had converted to a restricted type of Judaism prescribed by the Pharisees. They most certainly attended synagogue to hear Moses taught.

Then there must be a command somewhere in the NT for Christians to attend synagogues. I can't find it.
What was Paul doing when he had his Damascus road experience. Was he proselytizing gentiles?
Church is mentioned 113 times in the NT. Synagogue is mentioned 25 times. And gentile believers are never told to attend synagogues
Was Jesus lying when He said His followers would be beaten and even killed?

Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Matthew 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.​

 

[Der Alte]

LOL!

To learn how to be grafted into Israel....

See my post Peter's Vision [#81][/url] above.

 

[HARK!]

Then there must be a command somewhere in the NT for Christians to attend synagogues. I can't find it.

Commands? They were begging for it.

Acts 13:42
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Then there must be a command somewhere in the NT for Christians to attend synagogues. I can't find it.

Of course there is no command. That was not the point. You asked:
"If gentiles were give no command to follow the law why would they go to the synagogue?"
I answered that they were already there as converts to Pharisaic Judaism. Many left the synagogue to follow Paul after hearing him preach in the synagogue, because the Jews persecuted him in jealousy.
This is all in Acts.

 

[Der Alte]

Commands? They were begging for it.
Acts 13:42
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

One incident does not a consensus make. The gentiles were not begging to learn Torah, Paul didn't preach Torah to gentiles. Why did the gentiles have to wait until the Jews left before asking Paul to preach to them the next Sabbath. Couldn't they just go into the synagogue with the Jews?

 

[HARK!]

Why did the gentiles have to wait until the Jews left before asking Paul to preach to them the next Sabbath.

Why do you suppose they had to wait? I don't believe that Paul forced them to stay there after everyone else went home. LOL!

 

[Der Alte]

Of course there is no command. That was not the point. You asked:
"If gentiles were give no command to follow the law why would they go to the synagogue?"
I answered that they were already there as converts to Pharisaic Judaism. Many left the synagogue to follow Paul after hearing him preach in the synagogue, because the Jews persecuted him in jealousy.
This is all in Acts.

That is right if gentiles were in the synagogues they left because of persecution. Paul was not proselytizing gentiles to be Jews.

Jewish Encyclopia-Gentiles
Gentiles May Not Be Taught the Torah.
Inasmuch as the Jews had their own distinct jurisdiction, it would have been unwise to reveal their laws to the Gentiles, for such knowledge might have operated against the Jews in their opponents' courts. Hence the Talmud prohibited the teaching to a Gentile of the Torah, "the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob" (Deut. xxxiii. 4). R. Johanan says of one so teaching: "Such a person deserves death" (an idiom used to express indignation). "It is like placing an obstacle before the blind" (Sanh. 59a; Ḥag. 13a). …
Resh Lakish (d. 278) said, "A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death" (Sanh. 58b). This refers to a Gentile who accepted the seven laws of the Noachidæ, inasmuch as "the Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone," ... Rabbina, who lived about 150 years after the Christians had changed the day of rest to Sunday, could not quite understand the principle underlying Resh Lakish's law, and, commenting upon it, added: "not even on Mondays [is the Gentile allowed to rest]"; intimating that the mandate given to the Noachidæ that "day and night shall not cease" ((Heb.)Lo yshabti = "have no rest ") should be taken in a literal sense (Gen. viii. 22)—probably to discourage general idleness
"The Torah outlawed the issue of a Gentile as that of a beast" (Miḳ. viii. 4, referring to Ezek. l.c.)
Johanan bar Nappaḥa … the Torah was given as a heritage to Israel, a non-Israelite deserves death if he studies it [Torah](Sanh. 59a).
Gamaliel also expresses himself to the same effect, adding that the Gentiles, by their impure motive, incur the penalty of Gehenna. Eleazar of Modi'im sides with him, saying that "the Gentiles practice benevolence merely to taunt Israel."
Eliezer b. Hyrcanus is …, the mind of every non-Jew is always intent upon idolatry (Giṭ. 45b). The cattle of a heathen is unfit for sacrifices ('Ab. Zarah 23b). Explaining Prov. xiv. 34, he maintains that the non-Jews only practise charity in order to make for themselves a name (B. B. 10b; Pesiḳ. 12b; Gamaliel is credited with the same opinion in B. B. 10b).
Joshua b. Hananiah, … as a rule Gentiles cling to vain things and are rejected (Prov. xxviii. 19; Gen. R. lxxxii.).
Eleazar of Modi'im, in reference to Micah iv. 5, explains that Israel, though guilty of the same sins as the Gentiles, will not enter hell, while the Gentiles will (Cant. R. ii. 1). .. On the whole, he is very bitter in his condemnations of the heathen. "They profit by their deeds of love and benevolence to slander Israel" (referring to Jer. xl. 3;B. B. 10a).
Among Akiba's disciples Tarphon is noted for his antipathy to the Judæo-Christians, whose books he would burn without regard for the name of God occurring therein, preferring the temple of idolaters to them (Shab. 116a).
Simon ben Yoḥai is preeminently the anti-Gentile teacher. In a collection of three sayings of his, beginning with the keyword (Heb.) Shob (Yer. Ḳid. 66c; Massek. Soferim xv. 10; Mek., Beshal-laḥ, 27a; Tan., Wayera, ed. Buber, 20), is found the expression, often quoted by anti-Semites, "Ṭob shebe-goyyim harog" (="The best among the Gentiles deserves to be killed").
On the basis of Hab. iii. 6, Simon b. Yohai argued that, of all the nations, Israel alone was worthy to receive the Law (Lev. R. xiii.). The Gentiles, according to him, would not observe the seven laws given to the Noachidae (Tosef., Soṭah, viii. 7; Soṭah 35b), though the Law was written on the altar (Deut. xxvi. 8) in the seventy languages. Hence, while Israel is like the patient ass, the Gentiles resemble the easy-going, selfish dog (Lev. R. xiii.; Sifre, Deut., Wezot ha-Berakah, 343).
Judah ben 'Illai recommends the daily recital of the benediction. "Blessed be Thou . . . who hast not made me a goi[gentile]" (Tosef., Ber. vii. 18: Men. 43b, sometimes ascribed to Meir; see Weiss, "Dor," ii. 137). Judah is confident that the heathen (Gentiles) will ultimately come to shame (Isa. lxvi. 5; B. M. 33b).The Gentiles took copies of the Torah, and yet did not accept it (Soṭah 35b).
Eliezer, the son of Jose the Galilean, calls the Gentiles poor "goyyim dawim," because they would not accept the Torah (Mek., Yitro. 62a), referring to Hab. iii. 6 and Ps. cxlvii. 20
Josiah holds that every idolatrous heathen is an enemy of Israel (Mek., Mishpaṭim, 99a).
Jonathan insists that eclipses are of bad augury for Gentiles only, according to Jer. x. 2 (Mek., Bo, 19b).
Simon ben Jose likens Israel to a stone, and the Gentiles to a potsherd (Isa. xxx. 14), applying the proverb: "If the stone falls on the pot, wo to the pot; if the pot falls on the stone, wo to the pot." This he offered as a consolation to persecuted Israel (Esther R. iii. 6).
Hezekiah b. Hiyya deduces from II Kings xx. 18 that he who shows hospitality to a heathen brings the penalty of exile upon his own children (Sanh. 104a).
Johanan bar Nappaḥa … lays stress on the fact that God offered the Law to all nations, who refused to accept it ('Ab. Zarah 2b); therefore while the virus of lust that the serpent injected into Eve was neutralized in Israel, the "nations of the world" still have it in their blood (Shab. 145b; Yeb. 103b; 'Ab. Zarah 22b)…. the Torah was given as a heritage to Israel, a non-Israelite deserves death if he studies it (Sanh. 59a).
Assi is the author of the injunction not to instruct the Gentile in the Torah (Ḥag. 13a).
Tanhuma …likens the nations to wolves and Israel to a lamb (Pesiḳ. R. ix. [ed. Friedmann, p.32a]).
The seven nations in the Holy Land were to be exterminated for fear they might teach the Israelite conquerors idolatry and immoral practises (Deut. vii. 1-6, xviii. 9-14, xx. 16-18);
The Gentiles were so strongly suspected of unnatural crimes that it was necessary to prohibit the stabling of a cow in their stalls ('Ab. Zarah ii. 1).
GENTILE - JewishEncyclopedia.com​

 

[HARK!]

Couldn't they just go into the synagogue with the Jews?

LOL!

Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

 

[Der Alte]

Why do you suppose they had to wait? I don't believe that Paul forced them to stay there after everyone else went home. LOL!

They were outside because uncircumcised gentiles would not be allowed in the synagogue.

 

[HARK!]

Paul didn't preach Torah to gentiles

(CLV) Ac 15:19
"Wherefore I decide not to be harassing those from the nations who are turning back onto God,

(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.

(CLV) Ac 15:21
For Moses, from ancient generations, city by city, has those who are heralding him, being read on every sabbath in the synagogues."

Straight from the Torah:

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.



Leviticus 17
7 No longer shall they sacrifice their sacrifices to hairy goat-demons after whom they have been prostituting. An eonian statute shall this become for them throughout their generations. 8 To them you shall say:Any man from the house of Israel or from the sojourners who sojourn in your midst who should offer an ascent offering or a sacrifice 9 and not bring it to the opening of the tent of appointment to offer it to Yahweh, that man will be cut off from his kinsmen. 10 As for any man from the house of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who should eat any blood, I will set My face against the soul eating blood, and I will cut him off from among his people, 11 for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make a propitiatory shelter over your souls on the altar; for the blood, in the soul it makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore I say to the sons of Israel:No soul at all of you shall eat blood; nor shall the sojourner sojourning in your midst eat blood. 13 Any man from the sons of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who hunt a game animal or a flyer which may be eaten will pour out its blood and cover it with soil, 14 for the soul of all flesh is its blood; as its soul is it. So I said to the sons of Israel:The blood of any flesh you shall not eat, for the soul of all flesh, it is its blood. Everyone eating it shall be cut off.

 

[Der Alte]

LOL!
Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

One incident does not a consensus make. They would have been Greek Jewish proselytes. See post #87 above. Remember Jesus said His followers would be thrown out of the synagogues.

 

[dqhall]

The point of this OP must resolve itself with Paul's point of emphasis:
Romans 14:13. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
In the early church, Paul did not want a wedge driven by Jews demanding dietary restrictions on Gentiles. In these days, the situation has reversed. I listened to a talk by Zola Levitt at DTS(on TV) about 25 years ago, and he opened with this joke. 'When I first became a believer, I thought the first thing I should do is eat a ham sandwich'. This got a good laugh, but the inference is subtle. He was being shown acceptance by the invitation to speak at a Gentile Seminary.
A Jew should not be expected to abandon dietary restrictions to prove that they are not under law, but under grace and be accepted by Gentiles. To understand Paul's teaching properly, you have to see how the roles have reversed.

I am pescatarian. When meeting with others for supper at a home or restaurant, I ate from what was offered to me. An occasional variance from my diet is acceptable to me. Fellowship is more important than whether I eat meat or not. I am sure the USDA has prevented parasite infested meat from being sold in the market. I do not believe pork and beef are so different. Red meat is a known carcinogen. The ancient Hebrews did not know about this. They required a person to eat roasted lamb on the Passover. Does that mean being vegan or vegetarian is to reject the Torah? I reject it willingly.

 

[HARK!]

They were outside because uncircumcised gentiles would not be allowed in the synagogue.

(CLV) Ac 15:19
"Wherefore I decide not to be harassing those from the nations who are turning back onto God,

(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.

(CLV) Ac 15:21
For Moses, from ancient generations, city by city, has those who are heralding him, being read on every sabbath in the synagogues."

 

[Der Alte]

(CLV) Ac 15:19
"Wherefore I decide not to be harassing those from the nations who are turning back onto God,

(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.

(CLV) Ac 15:21
For Moses, from ancient generations, city by city, has those who are heralding him, being read on every sabbath in the synagogues."

Straight from the Torah:

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.



Leviticus 17
7 No longer shall they sacrifice their sacrifices to hairy goat-demons after whom they have been prostituting. An eonian statute shall this become for them throughout their generations. 8 To them you shall say:Any man from the house of Israel or from the sojourners who sojourn in your midst who should offer an ascent offering or a sacrifice 9 and not bring it to the opening of the tent of appointment to offer it to Yahweh, that man will be cut off from his kinsmen. 10 As for any man from the house of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who should eat any blood, I will set My face against the soul eating blood, and I will cut him off from among his people, 11 for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make a propitiatory shelter over your souls on the altar; for the blood, in the soul it makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore I say to the sons of Israel:No soul at all of you shall eat blood; nor shall the sojourner sojourning in your midst eat blood. 13 Any man from the sons of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who hunt a game animal or a flyer which may be eaten will pour out its blood and cover it with soil, 14 for the soul of all flesh is its blood; as its soul is it. So I said to the sons of Israel:The blood of any flesh you shall not eat, for the soul of all flesh, it is its blood. Everyone eating it shall be cut off.

Are you a sojourner in the midst of Israel? I'm not.

 

[HARK!]

One incident does not a consensus make.

(CLV) Ac 15:19
"Wherefore I decide not to be harassing those from the nations who are turning back onto God,

(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.

(CLV) Ac 15:21
For Moses, from ancient generations, city by city, has those who are heralding him, being read on every sabbath in the synagogues."

 

[Der Alte]

(CLV) Ac 15:19
"Wherefore I decide not to be harassing those from the nations who are turning back onto God,
(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.
(CLV) Ac 15:21
For Moses, from ancient generations, city by city, has those who are heralding him, being read on every sabbath in the synagogues."

Well I guess Jesus was lying,.

Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Matthew 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.​

 

[HARK!]

Are you a sojourner in the midst of Israel? I'm not.

Are you in covenant?


(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

 

[Der Alte]

Are you in covenant?
(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.
(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

I'm not an Israelite or a Jew. If you want to be, one go where your conscience leads you.

 

[HARK!]

Well I guess Jesus was lying,.
Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Matthew 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Why would you call Yahshua a liar? That's pretty offensive.

All this happened to Yahshua's disciples. It was happening before Paul ever went on the road to Damascus.

 

[HARK!]

I'm not an Israelite

The King of Israel is my King.