Peter's Vision

[Dkh587]

And the requirements are not the Torah laws.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The Spirit is given to those who obey God:

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


Works of the law is adherence to Judaism and its manmade law and commandments.

Works of the law is NOT obedience to God’s law

obeying God = obeying His law

works of the law is in reference to what is commonly called the oral law. The oral law, and God’s law are in opposition to one another

 

[renniks]

Check with your dietician. This isn't a spiritual issue.

No, I don't believe it is.
But, it is, according to the OP.

And I've never had a dietarian, lol.
Us rednecks don't even know what that is.

 

[HARK!]

Pork is nasty? The world consumes a lot of this animal because a) it tastes wonderful and 2) pigs convert "garbage" that people throw out into excellent meat. Of course you can choose not to eat this excellent meat; that's your decision. BTW, have you tried a slab of ribs or pulled pork? They're both excellent. In addition, these days, pigs are wonderful, intelligent, clean animals.

Shellfish is also excellent food. Try eating lobster if you want the best sea food that God has created.

Walter Veith explains the health benefits of eating clean, from a scientific perspective:

 

[pescador]

Both delicious, and I do occasionally partake. But if your diet is heavy in pork, you will have health complications. Some people eat bacon with everything, breakfast, on their hamburger...
Check with your dietician, this isn't a spiritual issue. The world can tell you what constitutes a healthy diet, which is not based on 'delicious'. And yes, pigs eat garbage.

What?? Eating bacon with every meal is of course unhealthy, just like drinking too much wine can kill you. It's a silly argument. Eating pork (or any other USDA-approved meat) is excellent for your health.

My dietician eats pork! 8^)

Pigs eat some of what we throw away and turn it into excellent meat. You can say the same thing about chickens. Do you also not eat chicken?

Pigs are important in poor countries because of their ability to transform "garbage" into excellent protein. Of course, in rich countries, we can feed cattle in the most expensive way possible, so people are convinced by advertising propaganda that beef is somehow better, even though it is detrimental to the environment.

 

[HARK!]

What?? Eating bacon with every meal is of course unhealthy, just like drinking too much wine can kill you. It's a silly argument. Eating pork (or any other USDA-approved meat) is excellent for your health.

My dietician eats pork! 8^)

Pigs eat some of what we throw away and turn it into excellent meat. You can say the same thing about chickens. Do you also not eat chicken?

Pigs are important in poor countries because of their ability to transform "garbage" into excellent protein. Of course, in rich countries, we can feed cattle in the most expensive way possible, so people are convinced by advertising propaganda that beef is somehow better, even though it is detrimental to the environment.

Tapeworms, Toxins and More: The Truth about Your Pork

 

[Minister Monardo]

No, I don't believe it is.
But, it is, according to the OP.

The point of this OP must resolve itself with Paul's point of emphasis:
Romans 14:13. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
In the early church, Paul did not want a wedge driven by Jews demanding dietary restrictions on Gentiles. In these days, the situation has reversed. I listened to a talk by Zola Levitt at DTS(on TV) about 25 years ago, and he opened with this joke. 'When I first became a believer, I thought the first thing I should do is eat a ham sandwich'. This got a good laugh, but the inference is subtle. He was being shown acceptance by the invitation to speak at a Gentile Seminary.
A Jew should not be expected to abandon dietary restrictions to prove that they are not under law, but under grace and be accepted by Gentiles. To understand Paul's teaching properly, you have to see how the roles have reversed.

 

[HARK!]

In the early church, Paul did not want a wedge driven by Jews demanding dietary restrictions on Gentiles.

Nonsense. This comes right out of the Torah concerning the ger toshav. Don't tell me that Paul didn't want to adhere to the Torah:

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.



Leviticus 17
7 No longer shall they sacrifice their sacrifices to hairy goat-demons after whom they have been prostituting. An eonian statute shall this become for them throughout their generations. 8 To them you shall say:Any man from the house of Israel or from the sojourners who sojourn in your midst who should offer an ascent offering or a sacrifice 9 and not bring it to the opening of the tent of appointment to offer it to Yahweh, that man will be cut off from his kinsmen. 10 As for any man from the house of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who should eat any blood, I will set My face against the soul eating blood, and I will cut him off from among his people, 11 for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make a propitiatory shelter over your souls on the altar; for the blood, in the soul it makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore I say to the sons of Israel:No soul at all of you shall eat blood; nor shall the sojourner sojourning in your midst eat blood. 13 Any man from the sons of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who hunt a game animal or a flyer which may be eaten will pour out its blood and cover it with soil, 14 for the soul of all flesh is its blood; as its soul is it. So I said to the sons of Israel:The blood of any flesh you shall not eat, for the soul of all flesh, it is its blood. Everyone eating it shall be cut off.

 

[Minister Monardo]

(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.

Aware. Abstaining from the blood is upon all from Noah. This was given in lieu of the entire law of Moses, which remained instructional and influential on the hearts of all, "being read every Sabbath".
Acts 15:21. For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach Him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[HARK!]

Aware. Abstaining from the blood is upon all from Noah. This was given in lieu of the entire law of Moses, which remained instructional and influential on the hearts of all, "being read every Sabbath".
Acts 15:21. For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach Him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

This was part of the bare minimum that was required of the ger toshav to share table fellowship with Israel; while they leaned Torah every Sabbath, to become grafted in with Israel.

 

[Der Alte]

...
Rats! Nothing doing. Peter still hasn't eaten. A little rat jerky for the road would have been nice until they get to the Heathen banquet. I wonder if it will be a pig roast....

Here is the little rotten mess in the middle of this diatribe.
While the dietary laws were abrogated in the NT by Jesus and others that does not rob people of common sense. When choosing to eat or not eat I can use my common sense and choose not to eat something I consider physically dirty or unhealthy or something I simply don't like.
You have given us one view of how a 21st century person who has been indoctrinated in a particular denomination might interpret Acts 10. But how would a 1st century former pagan Christian, who knew nothing about Jewish dietary laws, interpret it?

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book II.Chap. I. - On Eating.
Peter abstained from swine; “but a trance fell on him,” as is written in the Acts of the Apostles, “and he saw heaven opened, and a vessel let down on the earth by the four corners, and all the four-footed beasts and creeping things of the earth and the fowls of heaven in it; and there came a voice to him, Rise, and slay, and eat. And Peter said, Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten what is common or unclean. And the voice came again to him the second time, What God hath cleansed, call not thou common.” (Act_10:10-15) The use of them is accordingly indifferent to us. “For not what entereth into the mouth defileth the man,” (Mat_15:11) but the vain opinion respecting uncleanness. For God, when He created man, said, “All things shall be to you for meat.” (Gen_9:2, Gen_9:3) “And herbs, with love, are better than a calf with fraud.” (Pro_15:17)
Origen Against Celsus. Book II.Chap. I.
And so, according to the promise of Jesus, the Spirit of truth came to Peter, saying to him, with regard to the four-footed beasts, and creeping things of the earth, and fowls of the air: “Arise, Peter; kill, and eat.” And the Spirit came to him while he was still in a state of superstitious ignorance; for he said, in answer to the divine command, “Not so Lord; for I have never yet eaten anything common or unclean.” He instructed him, however, in the true and spiritual meaning of meats, by saying, “What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.” And so, after that vision, the Spirit of truth, which conducted Peter into all the truth, told him the many things which he was unable to bear when Jesus was still with him in the flesh. But I shall have another opportunity of explaining those matters, which are connected with the literal acceptation of the Mosaic law.
Origen Against Celsus. Book V. Chap. XLIX
And these distinctions were signs of certain things until the advent of Jesus; after whose coming it was said to His disciple, who did not yet comprehend the doctrine concerning these matters, but who said, “Nothing that is common or unclean hath entered into my mouth,” (cf. Act_10:14) “What God hath cleansed, call not thou common.” It therefore in no way affects either the Jews or us that the Egyptian priests abstain not only from the flesh of swine, but also from that of goats, and sheep, and oxen, and fish. But since it is not that “which entereth into the mouth that defiles a man,” and since “meat does not commend us to God,” we do not set great store on refraining from eating, nor yet are we induced to eat from a gluttonous appetite​

 

[Minister Monardo]

This was part of the bare minimum that was required of the ger toshav to share table fellowship with Israel; while they leaned Torah every Sabbath, to become grafted in with Israel.

I am also aware of that interpretation of Acts 15.
It in not an assertion that can be easily arrived at in Paul's teaching.
Romans 14:13. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
In the early church, Paul did not want a wedge driven between Jew and Gentile by demanding ALL dietary restrictions on Gentiles. [please continue and see my point is not diet, but fellowship]
In these days, the situation has reversed.
I listened to a talk by Zola Levitt at DTS(on TV) about 25 years ago, and he opened with this joke. 'When I first became a believer, I thought the first thing I should do is eat a ham sandwich'. This got a good laugh, but the inference is subtle. He was being shown acceptance by the invitation to speak at a Gentile Seminary.
*A Jew should not be expected to abandon dietary restrictions to prove that they are not under law, but under grace and be accepted by Gentiles.*

 

[expos4ever]

There appears to be an argument of this form being presented in this thread:

1. Israel was given the food laws;
2. The Gentiles are grafted into Israel;
3. Therefore, the Gentiles should now follow the food laws.

There is a big flaw with this: it could be the case that this new Israel - composed of both Jews and Gentiles - could be liberated from the written code of the Law of Moses.

And the evidence that this is the case is strong indeed.

 

[Der Alte]

Aware. Abstaining from the blood is upon all from Noah. This was given in lieu of the entire law of Moses, which remained instructional and influential on the hearts of all, "being read every Sabbath".
Acts 15:21. For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach Him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

This does not mean that uncircumcised gentiles were welcomed and attended synagogues.
The four requirements for gentiles was repeated three times and never in all those were gentiles told to attend synagogues. In fact Peter twice said he gave no command for gentiles to follow the law of Moses.
Acts of the apostles 15:24 and Acts of the apostles 21:24-25
If gentiles were give no command to follow the law why would they go to the synagogue?

 

[Minister Monardo]

This does not mean that uncircumcised gentiles were welcomed and attended synagogues.
The four requirements for gentiles was repeated three times and never in all those were gentiles told to attend synagogues. In fact Peter twice said he gave no command for gentiles to follow the law of Moses.
Acts of the apostles 15:24 and Acts of the apostles 21:24-25
If gentiles were give no command to follow the law why would they go to the synagogue?

Acts 18:4. And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Jews making proselytes among Gentiles was well established. Addressed by Yeshua.
Matthew 23:15. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
The first Gentiles to hear Paul's message in every city was typically those who had converted to a restricted type of Judaism prescribed by the Pharisees. They most certainly attended synagogue to hear Moses taught.

 

[HARK!]

For God, when He created man, said, “All things shall be to you for meat.”

LOL!

 

[HARK!]

If gentiles were give no command to follow the law why would they go to the synagogue?

To learn how to be grafted into Israel.

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

 

[HARK!]

There appears to be an argument of this form being presented in this thread:

1. Israel was given the food laws;
2. The Gentiles are grafted into Israel;
3. Therefore, the Gentiles should now follow the food laws.

There is a big flaw with this: it could be the case that this new Israel - composed of both Jews and Gentiles - could be liberated from the written code of the Law of Moses.

And the evidence that this is the case is strong indeed.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

 

[Minister Monardo]

To learn how to be grafted into Israel.

Romans 11:17, 18. And if certain of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wast graffed in among them, and a fellow-partaker of the root and of the fatness of the olive tree didst become— do not boast against the branches; and if thou dost boast, thou dost not bear the root, but the root thee!

 

[BobRyan]

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 KJV

Well there you have it.

and of course:

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:19 from the Law of Moses) you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” Ex 20
also said, “Do not commit murder.” Ex 20
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God

 

[HARK!]

Romans 11:17, 18. And if certain of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wast graffed in among them, and a fellow-partaker of the root and of the fatness of the olive tree didst become— do not boast against the branches; and if thou dost boast, thou dost not bear the root, but the root thee!

(CLV) Ro 11:21
For if God spares not the natural boughs, neither will He be sparing you!