Peter Is Not The Rock!

[Fireinfolding]

ROCKY

ROCKY II

ROCKY III

ROCKY IV

Anyone seeing a pattern here?

Heeeeelllllllllo, papal succession?

I can't believe you all are missing this.

I want to reach out and touch ya Tad

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[sunlover1]

The Word of Yahuweh can't be any plainer than this.

The Savior for whom the Rock was named, asked His disciples the most important question ever posed: "Who do you say (lego - affirm and maintain, advise and teach) I Am (eimi - I exist and am present as)?" To which, a disciple named for the astuteness of his revelation, responded: "Simon (a transliteration of the Hebrew name Shim’own, meaning to listen, understand, discern, regard, and proclaim) Petros (a masculine proper name meaning pebble or stone) gave the answer, ‘The Messiah, the Son of the living God.’" (Matthew 16:15-16)

Affirming this live-saving truth, "Yahushua said (lego), ‘Blessed (makarios - a poetic term denoting transcendent happiness in a life beyond labor and death) are you Shim’own (the one who listens, understands, discerns, regards, and proclaims), son of (bar) Yonah (from yownah, meaning the dove; the name of a Yahudi sent to Nineveh, Assyria whose life and book serve as a prophetic metaphor for Yahushua saving Gentiles), because flesh and blood did not make this manifest (apokalupto - disclose by baring), but My Father who is in Heaven." (Matthew 16:17) As is usually true with Scripture, every name and nuance was carefully chosen, revealing subtle and profound truths.

What follows is important. Petros/Peter isn’t the petra/bedrock. The recognition that "Yahushua is the Messiah, the Son of the living God," is the foundation upon which the ekklesia/called-out assembly would be restored and established. Beyond the evidence sprinkled throughout the Tanach, identifying the Rock with Yahshua, "Petros" was a man and every reference to "petra/bedrock" is feminine.

"Indeed (de), I (kago) say (logos) concerning this (hoti - as a marker of equivalence for identifying and explaining this) to you (soi), you (su) are (ei) Petros (a masculine proper noun meaning pebble or stone), and (kai) upon/by/in/with (epi - "upon" when used with things that are at rest, "by" when used in relationship to people, "with" when used in connection with authority, and "in" used in reference to an observation) this one (taute - singular feminine demonstrative pronoun) Rock (petra - bedrock, a feminine noun; a large stone which projects itself) I shall build by edifying, promoting, and restoring (oikodomeo - rebuild and establish, strengthen and enable, instruct and improve) My (mou) called out gathering (ekklesia)." (Matthew 16:18)

English translations all leave "hoti/concerning this" out of their renderings of Yahshua’s answer. Had it been included, no rational person would have thought that Petros, rather than his answer, was the foundation of the ekklesia. The source of edification and restoration is the Savior, not his flawed and imperfect disciple.

Believing Peter is the Rock is irrational and delusional. The evidence of Yahuweh's Word is irrevocable/irrefutable and supercedes, trumps, pre-empts, negates, refutes, and proves to be a lie all that oppose/contradict it, whether said opposition is human or church dogma.

And even in the english the antecedent is plain:

Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee,
but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Petera,
and upon this rock I will build my church;
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:

Another important point:
Is there any other allusion
to Jesus making any man
the foundation of His body?

 

[Rick Otto]

If He meant for Peter to be what He was gonna build His church on, He would've said," Thou art Peter & upon YOU I will build my church?

In order to say "this rock" & still mean Pete, He would've had to be talking to someone OTHER than Peter?

 

[sunlover1]

If He meant for Peter to be what He was gonna build His church on, He would've said," Thou art Peter & upon YOU I will build my church?

In order to say "this rock" & still mean Pete, He would've had to be talking to someone OTHER than Peter?

Yeah, like that Rick.

As always, you have such a way with words.

Why didn't I see you on the 'hang out' thread?
(hang with uphill)

Stop by sometime if you're in the folder again.

love,
sunlover

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If He meant for Peter to be what He was gonna build His church on, He would've said," Thou art Peter & upon YOU I will build my church?

In order to say "this rock" & still mean Pete, He would've had to be talking to someone OTHER than Peter?

Another question is, why did "Peter" fear the circumcision group if he was filled with the Holy Spirit like the rest of the Apostles at Pentecost.

Didn't he remember what Jesus said in Matt 10:28?

Gala 2:11 And when Peter/petroV <4074> came to Antioch, to the face I stood up against him, because he was blameworthy, 12 for before the coming of certain from James, with the nations he was eating, and when they came, he was withdrawing and separating himself, fearing those of the circumcision,

Matthew 10:28 `And not be ye fearing from the ones killing the body, the yet soul not being able to be killing. Be ye fearing yet the one being able even body and soul to destroy in Gehenna.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

But Peter did appear to change his "tune" in his Epistles, and HOW!!!!

[Rotherham] 1 Peter 3:12 Because, the eyes of the Lord, are towards the righteous, and his ears, unto their supplication,--Whereas, the face of the Lord, is against them that are doing mischievous things. 13 Who, then, is he that shall harm you, if, for that which is good, ye become zealous? 14 Nevertheless, even if ye should suffer for righteousness' sake, happy [are ye]! Their fear, however, do not fear, neither be troubled;

[Rotherham] 1 Peter 4:15 For let, none of you, be suffering as a murderer, or a thief, or an evil-doer, or as one prying into other men's affairs; 16 But, if as a Christian/cristianoV <5546>, let him not be ashamed, but be glorifying God in this name.

 

[elijah115]

The Word of Yahuweh can't be any plainer than this.

The Savior for whom the Rock was named, asked His disciples the most important question ever posed: "Who do you say (lego - affirm and maintain, advise and teach) I Am (eimi - I exist and am present as)?" To which, a disciple named for the astuteness of his revelation, responded: "Simon (a transliteration of the Hebrew name Shim’own, meaning to listen, understand, discern, regard, and proclaim) Petros (a masculine proper name meaning pebble or stone) gave the answer, ‘The Messiah, the Son of the living God.’" (Matthew 16:15-16)

Affirming this live-saving truth, "Yahushua said (lego), ‘Blessed (makarios - a poetic term denoting transcendent happiness in a life beyond labor and death) are you Shim’own (the one who listens, understands, discerns, regards, and proclaims), son of (bar) Yonah (from yownah, meaning the dove; the name of a Yahudi sent to Nineveh, Assyria whose life and book serve as a prophetic metaphor for Yahushua saving Gentiles), because flesh and blood did not make this manifest (apokalupto - disclose by baring), but My Father who is in Heaven." (Matthew 16:17) As is usually true with Scripture, every name and nuance was carefully chosen, revealing subtle and profound truths.

What follows is important. Petros/Peter isn’t the petra/bedrock. The recognition that "Yahushua is the Messiah, the Son of the living God," is the foundation upon which the ekklesia/called-out assembly would be restored and established. Beyond the evidence sprinkled throughout the Tanach, identifying the Rock with Yahshua, "Petros" was a man and every reference to "petra/bedrock" is feminine.

"Indeed (de), I (kago) say (logos) concerning this (hoti - as a marker of equivalence for identifying and explaining this) to you (soi), you (su) are (ei) Petros (a masculine proper noun meaning pebble or stone), and (kai) upon/by/in/with (epi - "upon" when used with things that are at rest, "by" when used in relationship to people, "with" when used in connection with authority, and "in" used in reference to an observation) this one (taute - singular feminine demonstrative pronoun) Rock (petra - bedrock, a feminine noun; a large stone which projects itself) I shall build by edifying, promoting, and restoring (oikodomeo - rebuild and establish, strengthen and enable, instruct and improve) My (mou) called out gathering (ekklesia)." (Matthew 16:18)

English translations all leave "hoti/concerning this" out of their renderings of Yahshua’s answer. Had it been included, no rational person would have thought that Petros, rather than his answer, was the foundation of the ekklesia. The source of edification and restoration is the Savior, not his flawed and imperfect disciple.

Believing Peter is the Rock is irrational and delusional. The evidence of Yahuweh's Word is irrevocable/irrefutable and supercedes, trumps, pre-empts, negates, refutes, and proves to be a lie all that oppose/contradict it, whether said opposition is human or church dogma.

MT 16:15 legei autois, Humeis de tina me legete einai?

MT 16:16 apokritheis de Simön Petros eipen, Su ei ho Christos ho huios tou theou tou zöntos.

MT 16:17 apokritheis de ho Iësous eipen autö, Makarios ei, Simön Bariöna, hoti sarx kai haima ouk apekalupsen soi all' ho patër mou ho en tois ouranois. 18 kagö de soi legö hoti su ei Petros, kai epi tautë të petra oikodomësö mou tën ekklësian, kai pulai hadou ou katischusousin autës. 19 dösö soi tas kleidas tës basileias tön ouranön, kai ho ean dësës epi tës gës estai dedemenon en tois ouranois, kai ho ean lusës epi tës gës estai lelumenon en tois ouranois. 20 tote epetimësen tois mathëtais hina mëdeni eipösin hoti autos estin ho Christos.

 

[mont974x4]

Yes, if it was Pete it would have said upon you I will build...

but it doesn't, as that would contradict all of Scripture

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Rick Otto LLWA,
that was all before Peter "Balboa" denied him thrice & later still, reverted to circumcision?
I ain't missin' nuthin', tado'!
I can hear "Eye of The Tiger" in the background...

Originally Posted by tadoflamb
ROCKY

ROCKY II

ROCKY III

ROCKY IV

Anyone seeing a pattern here?

Heeeeelllllllllo, papal succession?

I can't believe you all are missing this.

I suggest the Rocky theme song be played after the successfull election of a pope.

I cannot believe someone bumped this thread up LOL.

 

[Rick Otto]

It seemed so obvious.
I thought it was just me for awhile there.
Boy was I feeling either stupid or lonely.
I guess I must be a lot like Peter that way.
When things aren't going well, I tend to cave.
Man have these last few posts helped my morale,
which for other reasons has reached an all time low lately.

look how good God is to me.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It seemed so obvious.
I thought it was just me for awhile there.
Boy was I feeling either stupid or lonely.
I guess I must be a lot like Peter that way.
When things aren't going well, I tend to cave.
Man have these last few posts helped my morale,
which for other reasons has reached an all time low lately.

look how good God is to me.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

This part still gives me "goosebumps" for some reason when I read it.

[Young LT] Luke 22:60 and Peter said, `Man, I have not known what thou sayest;' and presently, while he is speaking, a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crew. 61 And the Lord having turned did look on Peter, and Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he said to him--`Before a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] shall crow, thou mayest disown me thrice;' 62 and Peter having gone without, wept bitterly.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

The Word of Yahuweh can't be any plainer than this..

I see, so you somehow understand the Word better than those who learned at the feet of the Apostles whom Jesus sent to teach it to the world. They were taught by the very ones who wrote the Gosples and Epistles and yet, 2000 years later, you have discovered their error and are prepared to correct them.

Completely incredible!

 

[sunlover1]

look how good God is to me.

16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5523201#_ftn1
http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5523201#_ftnref1

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I see, so you somehow understand the Word better than those who learned at the feet of the Apostles whom Jesus sent to teach it to the world. They were taught by the very ones who wrote the Gosples and Epistles and yet, 2000 years later, you have discovered their error and are prepared to correct them.

Completely incredible!

Nah, I just let Islam do that for us.

http://onlineislamicstore.com/b7800.html

200+ Ways the Quran Corrects the Bible :
How Islam Unites Judaism and Christianity

Detailed descriptions on how the Quran corrects hundreds of contradictions in the Bible (Old and New Testament). Also included are Islamic replies to excuses by Jewish and Christian scholars. 200+ ways the Qur'an Corrects the Bible gives you the information to refute even the professors of evangelical missionaries. A new climax in comparative religion analysis.

 

[Rick Otto]

Even Judas got it wrong.
Thomas doubted.
Peter denied thrice & feared the circumcizers.
Paul couldn't get along with Barnabus.


It is incredible, but as He says, it ain't about who you ran with, knew in the flesh, not even who you shared the original Eucharist with.
Ro 9:16 - Show Context So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. He has a way of making our wisdom foolish.

Lu 10:21 - Show Context In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

G'night, Iggy!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Even Judas got it wrong.
Thomas doubted.
Peter denied thrice & feared the circumcizers.
Paul couldn't get along with Barnabus.


It is incredible, but as He says, it ain't about who you ran with, knew in the flesh, not even who you shared the original Eucharist with.
Ro 9:16 - Show Context So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. He has a way of making our wisdom foolish.

Lu 10:21 - Show Context In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

G'night, Iggy!

Phil 3:2 Beware of-the Dogs/kunaV <2965>, beware of-the Evil Workers , beware of-the concision!3 For we-are the circumcision, ones to Spirit of God worship, boasting in an Christ Jesus, and not in flesh having confidence.

1 Peter 1:17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay [here] in fear; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, [like] silver or gold, from your aimless conduct [received] by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

Zeph 1:17 "I will bring distress upon men, And they shall walk like blind men, Because they have sinned against the LORD; Their blood shall be poured out like dust, And their flesh like refuse." 18 Neither their silver nor their gold Shall be able to deliver them In the day of the LORD's wrath;

 

[Peaceful Dove]

I am pretty tired of all of this.
In another thread Uphill Battle mentioned some issues and asked, "Does it really matter?"

These were Protestant issues that he mentioned. Not things that Catholics get heartburn over.

It would seem that you folks get a belly ache over your own issues but even more so, Catholic issues.

You can argue, page after page over page about things that you seem to believe are true. What does the arguing get you? Do you ever prove a point? I doubt you ever will. You are arguing things that folks have believed for 2000 years. You aren't changing anything.

The worst thing is you are not glorifying God. That is not even your goal, is it? All you care about is trying to prove you are right.

All of the words in the world will not change anything.

Don't you ever get tired?
You think this builds up the Body of Christ?

It has flat worn me out.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

These were Protestant issues that he mentioned. Not things that Catholics get heartburn over.

It would seem that you folks get a belly ache over your own issues but even more so, Catholic issues.

My main issue is when I or some other non-catholic Christian are essentially called a non-christian by a catholic in front of other religions and atheists when we are debating them

This post wasn't directed at me, but I was pretty horrified at this statement made and I think others should be also. Peace.

http://www.christianforums.com/t153...ndu-and-biblical-prophecies.html#post37059135
http://www.christianforums.com/t153...ndu-and-biblical-prophecies.html#post37059135
I am a Catholic. And, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, protestants are not Christians. Therefore, I do not have to have the same position as you, since you are not Christian! (Sorry, NOT trying to be mean. Just going along with the Church!)

 

[LLWHA]

And even in the english the antecedent is plain:

Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee,
but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter&#65279;a&#65279;,
and upon this rock I will build my church;
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:

Another important point:
Is there any other allusion
to Jesus making any man
the foundation of His body?

Why would Jesus build His community with a pebble that did not love Him?

Three times Jesus asked His little pebble if He Loved Him and three times Peter did not say yes.

The Rock is the Truth that Peter said.

"I am The Way, The Truth and The Life." Jesus

Truth is the Key to Heaven.

Would Jesus tell the person that was going to build His community "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."?





Matt.16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and lawyers, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Yes this man that never ever went to Rome as He was ordered not to preach to the Gentiles as were Jesus disciples so ordered not to teach to the gentiles.

They were all ordered to preach to the Lost Tribes of Israel.

Paul was for teaching to the Gentiles and not in one of Paul's letters does He greet Peter or say Peter was in Rome.

So some people believe LIES that this man that Jesus referred to as Satan, that three times would not say that he Loved Jesus, was ordered to and never went to Rome and never taught to gentiles started a church in Rome?

Mark 7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: Mt. 26.32 · Mk. 14.28 there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.

In Heaven they did not even consider Peter one of Jesus' Disciples as you can see from the Angels words here!!

This man Peter did not start Jesus' Community!! By the way Jesus could not stand churches!!!!!!!

I do not care if some church (churches) and their blind guides have been telling lies for 2000 years! It is still a Lie.

 

[elijah115]

I am pretty tired of all of this.
In another thread Uphill Battle mentioned some issues and asked, "Does it really matter?"

These were Protestant issues that he mentioned. Not things that Catholics get heartburn over.

It would seem that you folks get a belly ache over your own issues but even more so, Catholic issues.

You can argue, page after page over page about things that you seem to believe are true. What does the arguing get you? Do you ever prove a point? I doubt you ever will. You are arguing things that folks have believed for 2000 years. You aren't changing anything.

The worst thing is you are not glorifying God. That is not even your goal, is it? All you care about is trying to prove you are right.

All of the words in the world will not change anything.

Don't you ever get tired?
You think this builds up the Body of Christ?

It has flat worn me out.

I agree that we should try not to argue but focus on bringing glory to God. What I don't agree with is Roman Catholics (a gentile church artificially grafted in to the body of Christ like all non-jewish churches) saying that all non-Roman Catholics are not christians. I don't see how Roman Catholics are bringing glory to God by such assertions. Of course you may get tired of all the arguments in GT. I've stayed away from GT since 1 month after I joined in 2005 so I don't know what I've been missing. What I can state objectively is that these kinds of statements by Roman Catholics are what is antagonizing a lot of other christians. It's like slapping someone in the face on both cheeks and then calling them a nuisance for saying it hurts.