Peter Is Not The Rock!

[ScottBot]

That sucks, I can't ignore a moderator whose being rude?

Funny thing that is. But in deferrence to your intent, I shall refrain from posting to you in the future, with the exception of official actions, of which I will recuse myself and defer to other moderators.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Many left Jesus because of His "Hard teachings" just as they left Paul here.

This one "anti-Paul" site took advantage of it.

2 Timothy 1:15 thou hast known this, that they did turn from/apestrafhsan <654> me--all those in the Asia, of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes;


http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe.htm

If these five reasons are not enough to seriously call into question Paul's status as an apostle there is one more. It is a most interesting quote from Paul's own pen that finally seals the fate of his supposed apostleship. It comes from his second letter to Timothy, which was also written during the same Neronian persecution in which John was given the Revelation. This letter is believed by many scholars to contain the last recorded words of Paul. Here he makes a short statement of lament that seems to have gone unnoticed. The implications of which are astounding if one is able to hear everything that is being said. Paul says to Timothy:

"This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me." 2Timothy 1:15

Asia! All of them! Rejecting Paul! And when he says, "This you know", it sounds like this must have been relatively common knowledge at that time. Asia! The very place that Yahshua told John to write, where his seven churches were! And they were alive, and obviously had been established for some time. Again, notice that Paul did not say that Asia had rejected Yahshua. Obviously they hadn't rejected Yahshua if there were thriving churches there that Yahshua wanted to address through John. Instead Paul said that all Asia had rejected him personally!

Maybe I'll tackle this sometime Lamb. Sounds interesting. Im not a conspiracy theory nut Lamb.

Peter verified Pauls writings and said he wrote of things hard to understand that others wrest with to their own distruction.

I find everything he spoke on concerning the mysteries of Christ right on.

Though, I must say I might find this one an interesting tackle. If I decide to dig into this some more and get somewhere with it, Ill start a post on it Lord willing.


Fireinfolding

 

[Fireinfolding]

do you mean at the time of the crucifixion ?

Hi Thelka No he was speaking of here I believe

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.


Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.


Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Thekla]

Hi Thelka No he was speaking of here I believe

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.


Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.


Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


Peace

Fireinfolding

Thanks !

I was trying to figure out what you were meaning ... thats all I could think of

 

[Fireinfolding]

Thanks !

I was trying to figure out what you were meaning ... thats all I could think of

Your welcome Thelka

I get lost many times on the threads

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi Thelka No he was speaking of here I believe

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.


Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.


Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


Peace

Fireinfolding

And here again, both Cephas and Peter are used.

Gala 2:9 and having known the grace that was given to me, James, and Cephas/khfaV <2786>, and John, who were esteemed to be pillars, a right hand of fellowship they did give to me, and to Barnabas, that we to the nations, and they to the circumcision,
11 And when Peter/petroV <4074> came to Antioch, to the face I stood up against him, because he was blameworthy, 12 for before the coming of certain from James, with the nations he was eating, and when they came, he was withdrawing and separating himself, fearing those of the circumcision,

 

[mont974x4]

Just for the sake of keeping things upfront and forthright...

Amor and I have asked each other for forgiveness, apoligies have been accepted and forgiveness granted.


Now, off to do yard work.

God bless,
Jay

 

[sunlover1]

Just for the sake of keeping things upfront and forthright...

Amor and I have asked each other for forgiveness, apoligies have been accepted and forgiveness granted.


Now, off to do yard work.

God bless,
Jay

Duh.

Who could stay mad at EITHER one of you
guys?

Your families are blessed,
sunlover

 

[WarriorAngel]

LOL Evryone looked to Peter and then Paul corrected him.

No where are we told to imitate Peter. we are told to imitate Paul as he imitates Christ.


Why didn't they pick Paul for the first pope? Did the lots just not fall that way?

Because "they" didn't do it, Christ did. Take it up with Him.

 

[Rick Otto]

The Word of Yahuweh can't be any plainer than this.

The Savior for whom the Rock was named, asked His disciples the most important question ever posed: "Who do you say (lego - affirm and maintain, advise and teach) I Am (eimi - I exist and am present as)?" To which, a disciple named for the astuteness of his revelation, responded: "Simon (a transliteration of the Hebrew name Shim’own, meaning to listen, understand, discern, regard, and proclaim) Petros (a masculine proper name meaning pebble or stone) gave the answer, ‘The Messiah, the Son of the living God.’" (Matthew 16:15-16)

Affirming this live-saving truth, "Yahushua said (lego), ‘Blessed (makarios - a poetic term denoting transcendent happiness in a life beyond labor and death) are you Shim’own (the one who listens, understands, discerns, regards, and proclaims), son of (bar) Yonah (from yownah, meaning the dove; the name of a Yahudi sent to Nineveh, Assyria whose life and book serve as a prophetic metaphor for Yahushua saving Gentiles), because flesh and blood did not make this manifest (apokalupto - disclose by baring), but My Father who is in Heaven." (Matthew 16:17) As is usually true with Scripture, every name and nuance was carefully chosen, revealing subtle and profound truths.

What follows is important. Petros/Peter isn’t the petra/bedrock. The recognition that "Yahushua is the Messiah, the Son of the living God," is the foundation upon which the ekklesia/called-out assembly would be restored and established. Beyond the evidence sprinkled throughout the Tanach, identifying the Rock with Yahshua, "Petros" was a man and every reference to "petra/bedrock" is feminine.

"Indeed (de), I (kago) say (logos) concerning this (hoti - as a marker of equivalence for identifying and explaining this) to you (soi), you (su) are (ei) Petros (a masculine proper noun meaning pebble or stone), and (kai) upon/by/in/with (epi - "upon" when used with things that are at rest, "by" when used in relationship to people, "with" when used in connection with authority, and "in" used in reference to an observation) this one (taute - singular feminine demonstrative pronoun) Rock (petra - bedrock, a feminine noun; a large stone which projects itself) I shall build by edifying, promoting, and restoring (oikodomeo - rebuild and establish, strengthen and enable, instruct and improve) My (mou) called out gathering (ekklesia)." (Matthew 16:18)

English translations all leave "hoti/concerning this" out of their renderings of Yahshua’s answer. Had it been included, no rational person would have thought that Petros, rather than his answer, was the foundation of the ekklesia. The source of edification and restoration is the Savior, not his flawed and imperfect disciple.

Believing Peter is the Rock is irrational and delusional. The evidence of Yahuweh's Word is irrevocable/irrefutable and supercedes, trumps, pre-empts, negates, refutes, and proves to be a lie all that oppose/contradict it, whether said opposition is human or church dogma.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by mont974x4
LOL Evryone looked to Peter and then Paul corrected him.

No where are we told to imitate Peter. we are told to imitate Paul as he imitates Christ.


Why didn't they pick Paul for the first pope? Did the lots just not fall that way?

Originally Posted by Amor Vincit Omnia
Because "they" didn't do it, Christ did. Take it up with Him.

Reminds me of the story of the King of Babylon when he came to a "crossroad".

Acts 1:24 and having prayed, they said, `Thou, Lord, who art knowing the heart of all, shew which one thou didst choose of these two
25 to receive the share of this ministration and apostleship, from which Judas, by transgression, did fall, to go on to his proper place;'
26 and they gave their lots, and the lot fell upon Matthias/matqian <3159> , and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Ezekiel 21:21 For stood hath the king of Babylon at the head of the way, At the top of the two ways, to use divination, He hath moved lightly with the arrows, He hath asked at the teraphim, He hath looked on the liver.

 

[Rick Otto]

Jesus was expressing His elegant sense of humor & irony by naming Peter "Rock". Peter was far less stable than Paul, but Paul had to be knocked off his high horse & blinded for 3 days, so neither are personaly shining examples in that respect.

 

[tadoflamb]

Jesus was expressing His elegant sense of humor & irony by naming Peter "Rock".

That's what I think. It's really funny. "Yo' rocks in your head, you're Rocky and upon you I shall build my church."

OK, I'll shut up now. :o

 

[Rick Otto]

Make the bufoon the leader to emphasize dependance upon God, not man. I mean, Peter was definitely enthused, but wantin' to heap stones at the transfiguration, denying Jesus thrice, cavin' in to circumcision... definitely not infallible.

 

[tadoflamb]

Make the bufoon the leader to emphasize dependance upon God, not man. I mean, Peter was definitely enthused, but wantin' to heap stones at the transfiguration, denying Jesus thrice, cavin' in to circumcision... definitely not infallible.

It works because I'm a papist. If Jesus can use a guy like Rocky, certainly he can use a guy like me!

My heart is filled with joy.

 

[Chickapee]

I dont know if this was mentioned but its all I need to know ITS ALL JESUS CHRIST being the ROCK

Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. !!!

the LORD GIVES them to whom ever He wills !!!
hearing the Lord God first as peter did and believes [we are all as Peter from hearing little rock stones ] had to become a doer not just a hearer only !

the ROCK being the revelation of the truth
Mat 16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:

and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 7:24-27

The Two Foundations

24"Therefore (A)everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25"And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26"Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27"The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall."

Luke 6:46-49


Builders and Foundations

46"(A)Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
47"(B)Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like:
48he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49"But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great."

Romans 2:13


13for it is (A)not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
James 1:22-25



22(A)But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face (B)in a mirror;
24for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. 25But one who looks intently at the perfect law, (C)the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be (D)blessed in what he does.

James 2:14-20


Faith and Works

14(A)What use is it, (B)my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

15(C)If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16and one of you says to them, "(D)Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17Even so (E)faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18(F)But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your (G)faith without the works, and I will (H)show you my faith (I)by my works."
19You believe that [a](J)God is one (K)You do well; (L)the demons also believe, and shudder. 20But are you willing to recognize, (M)you foolish fellow, that (N)faith without works is useless?


its walking the walk in the SPIRIT of the Living God not talking the talk to me
God bless c

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It works because I'm a papist. If Jesus can use a guy like Rocky, certainly he can use a guy like me!

My heart is filled with joy.

Well then, I will just be "Bullwinkle".
[Oh wait, you said guy]

Matthew 24:37 For just as the days of the Noah thus shall be the Parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;

 

[tadoflamb]

I just remembered, Rocky was Italian. Do you see how it all comes together now?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Its a spiritual rock

lol

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[tadoflamb]

Its a spiritual rock

lol

Peace

Fireinfolding

YOU WIN!

The weight of that rock is crushing!