Peter Is Not The Rock!

[MamaZ]

Well you're quite a Christian.. ..in a protestant sort of way

 

[Rick Otto]

they might like to reflect that without the Catholic Church they'd all probably be either Muslim or Pagans now. It was Rome which, through the Dark Ages, carried civilisation and the Faith forward; Rome which turned aside Attila and his Huns; Rome which helped inspire Charles Martel and the victory at Poitiers.

If European Christians in the Middle Ages believed that Rome was the rock against which the gates of hell would not prevail, they had plenty of evidence from which to derive that belief.

A more balanced view of these things would help discussion - but for reasons I can never fathom, a visceral loathing of Rome seems built into the faith of some Protestants and Orthodox. It is so sad that a gospel of love has prompted, on all sides, so much hate.

Hi Anglian.
Visceral loathings aside, I prefer to give God the credit for the gates of hell (Muslims)not prevailing, which RCs themselves interperet to mean being infallibly correct on their teachings re: faith & morals. So your point is ambiguous in that respect.
It wasn't so much a gospel of love that prompted visceral loathing as it was an Inquisition that may have carved out of history a permanent shock & horror of Vatican excesses, the infamy of some "less than impeccable" popes aside.
Visceral hatred can be tamed & hidden behind smiles & polite speech, and Protestantism has been victimized in this way by the other Christianties.
Read some of Hogndog's Inquisition thread & you'll see what I mean.

 

[Rick Otto]

To be perfectly honest, I did think what you've written was a cheap shot. It is also ill-advised. To take on a 13-year-old who has already expressed anger for Catholic provocation is something I can't understand. What can possibly be your motive? Was it prudent, what you did?

The danger of posting on the forum is we sometimes want to score points against others without thinking of the consequence of our actions. It's always good to be prayerful before we shoot off a post. And we should consider what effect our post can have. I can understand indiscretion among those who are very young but I expect adults to be more responsible.

I beg your forgiveness if I have taken a liberty I shouldn't have but I was speaking from the heart.

Thank you. I found that particularly redeeming.

 

[MamaZ]

To be perfectly honest, I did think what you've written was a cheap shot. It is also ill-advised. To take on a 13-year-old who has already expressed anger for Catholic provocation is something I can't understand. What can possibly be your motive? Was it prudent, what you did?

The danger of posting on the forum is we sometimes want to score points against others without thinking of the consequence of our actions. It's always good to be prayerful before we shoot off a post. And we should consider what effect our post can have. I can understand indiscretion among those who are very young but I expect adults to be more responsible.

I beg your forgiveness if I have taken a liberty I shouldn't have but I was speaking from the heart.

How refreshing this was.. Thank you

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Forgive me...

Greetings Ortho. What's the matter?

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to be keeping all as much as I command to ye. And behold! I with ye am all the days till the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age/aiwnoV <165>. Amen [Matt 24:3]

Hebrews 9:26 Since it was binding Him many-times to be suffering from according-casting of world, now yet once upon together-finish/sun-teleia <4930> of the Ages/aiwnwn <165> into putting-away of Sin, thru the Sacrifice of Him, He has been manifested.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What is the Orthodox view of that word #3778? Thanks.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matt 16:18 And I yet to thee am saying, that thou are peter and upon this/tauth <3778> the rock I shall be building of Me the out-called and gates of hades not shall be prevailing of her

tauth <3778>, pd Dative Singular Feminine

Textus Rec.) Matthew 16:18 kagw de soi legw oti su ei petroV kai epi tauth th petra oikodomhsw mou thn ekklhsian kai pulai adou ou katiscusousin authV

Hebrew 11:2 For in this/tauth <3778> were testified to the Elders/presbuteroi 3 To Faith we are apprehending...........

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That word #2729 is also interesting. It comes from the root word for "strong"

Matt 16:18 `And I yet to thee am saying, that thou art Peter, and upon this, the rock I shall be building of Me the out-called and gates of hades not shall be prevailing/kat-iscusousin <2729> (5692) of her;

Reve 12:7 And became battle in the heaven the Micael and the messengers of him do battle with the dragon and the dragon battles and the messengers of him 8 and not he is strong/iscusan <2480> (5656) neither place was found of them still in the Heaven. [DANIEL 12]

2729. katischuo kat-is-khoo'-o from 2596 and 2480; to overpower:--prevail (against).
2480. ischuo is-khoo'-o from 2479; to have (or exercise) force (literally or figuratively):--be able, avail, can do(-not), could, be good, might, prevail, be of strength, be whole, + much work.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Greetings Ortho. What's the matter?

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to be keeping all as much as I command to ye. And behold! I with ye am all the days till the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age/aiwnoV <165>. Amen [Matt 24:3]

Hebrews 9:26 Since it was binding Him many-times to be suffering from according-casting of world, now yet once upon together-finish/sun-teleia <4930> of the Ages/aiwnwn <165> into putting-away of Sin, thru the Sacrifice of Him, He has been manifested.

double post

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Greetings Ortho. What's the matter?

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to be keeping all as much as I command to ye. And behold! I with ye am all the days till the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age/aiwnoV <165>. Amen [Matt 24:3]

Hebrews 9:26 Since it was binding Him many-times to be suffering from according-casting of world, now yet once upon together-finish/sun-teleia <4930> of the Ages/aiwnwn <165> into putting-away of Sin, thru the Sacrifice of Him, He has been manifested.

argumentum ad nauseum

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

What is the Orthodox view of that word #3778? Thanks.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matt 16:18 And I yet to thee am saying, that thou are peter and upon this/tauth <3778> the rock I shall be building of Me the out-called and gates of hades not shall be prevailing of her

tauth <3778>, pd Dative Singular Feminine

Textus Rec.) Matthew 16:18 kagw de soi legw oti su ei petroV kai epi tauth th petra oikodomhsw mou thn ekklhsian kai pulai adou ou katiscusousin authV

Hebrew 11:2 For in this/tauth <3778> were testified to the Elders/presbuteroi 3 To Faith we are apprehending...........

That it refers to Peters statement.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

argumentum ad nauseum

Forgive me...

Yah. Wanna help me out on the Greek

Acts 6:10 And not they were strong/iscuon <2480> (5707) to withstand to the Wisdom and to the Spirit to which he talked.

Reve 12:7 And became battle in the heaven the Micael and the messengers of him do battle with the dragon and the dragon battles and the messengers of it/him 8 and not he is strong/iscusan <2480> (5656) neither place was found of them still in the Heaven. [DANIEL 12]

 

[Rick Otto]

Yeah, how does the EO substantiate the rock reference is to Peter's statement & not to Peter himself.
Get jiggy with the Greek & hypothesize at length on the Aramaic if you would be so kind.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yeah, how does the EO substantiate the rock reference is to Peter's statement & not to Peter himself.
Get jiggy with the Greek & hypothesize at length on the Aramaic if you would be so kind.

I started a thread where I will show where all the forms of the words used in Matt 16:18 are used in the rest of the NT/NC. If the RCs desire to use the Aramaic for that verse, then they will have to use it for the rest of the NT/NC in my view.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7285271
Matt 16:18 Verse word study Peter and Rock

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Yeah, how does the EO substantiate the rock reference is to Peter's statement & not to Peter himself.
Get jiggy with the Greek & hypothesize at length on the Aramaic if you would be so kind.

Quite honestly no Church other than The Church of Rome says that it refers to Peter himself.

Forgive me...

 

[visionary]

Quite honestly no Church other than The Church of Rome says that it refers to Peter himself.

Forgive me...

Now that is the truth... but then they benefit from others believing that it is true as they describe it... you know what they say about follow the money trail.. in this case.. benefits go to RCC not the Lord.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Now that is the truth... but then they benefit from others believing that it is true as they describe it... you know what they say about follow the money trail.. in this case.. benefits go to RCC not the Lord.

Reve 3:18 I am together-advising to thee to purchase beside of Me gold having been fired out of fire, that thou should be being rich, and garments, whites, that thou may be being about-cast and no may be made manifest the vileness of the nakedness of thee, and eye-salve to annoint the eyes of thee that thou may be beholding.

Luke 16:19 A certain Man was rich and in-slipped/clothed/enedidu-sketo <1737> (5710) purple and fine-linen/busson <1040> making-merry down to a-day, shiningly

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=4437955&page=43

 

[Rick Otto]

Yeah, glory is the eternal currency.

 

[Rick Otto]

Quite honestly no Church other than The Church of Rome says that it refers to Peter himself.

Forgive me...

Yeah, but don't forget Trento can cut & paste a gaggle of nominaly Protestant scholars who have surrendered the point, and Protestants aren't ecclesiologicaly monolithic in their temporal institutions.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yeah, but don't forget Trento can cut & paste a gaggle of nominaly Protestant scholars who have surrendered the point, and Protestants aren't ecclesiologicaly monolithic in their temporal institutions.

Now if I can only get the RCs to point out to me how early protestant/Orthodox scholars viewed that "queen/prostitute" in Revelation.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7263327&page=3
Early ECFs and Queen/Babylon in Revelation