Persons in creation pre-existing conception?

[GoldenKingGaze]

I'm using the word (charge/account/impute to) Scripture uses (Heb: chasab, Ge 15:6; Gr: logizomai, Ro 4:3) in this regard in the case of Abraham.

From Biblehub:

chashab: To think, plan, reckon, account, consider, devise, esteem
Original Word: חָשַׁב
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: chashab
Pronunciation: khaw-shab'
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-shab')
KJV: (make) account (of), conceive, consider, count, cunning (man, work, workman), devise, esteem, find out, forecast, hold, imagine, impute, invent, be like, mean, purpose, reckon(-ing be made), regard, think
NASB: considered, devise, reckoned, skillful workman, devised, regarded, calculate
Word Origin: [a primitive root]

1. (properly) to plait or interpenetrate, i.e. (literally) to weave or (gen.) to fabricate
2. (figuratively) to plot or contrive (usually in a malicious sense)
3. hence (from the mental effort) to think, regard, value, compute

logizomai: To reckon, to consider, to account, to think, to impute.
Original Word: λογίζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: logizomai
Pronunciation: lo-GHEE-zom-ahee
Phonetic Spelling: (log-id'-zom-ahee)
KJV: conclude, (ac-)count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on)
NASB: credited, consider, regard, regarded, take into account, considered, numbered
Word Origin: [middle voice from G3056 (λόγος - word)]

1. to take an inventory, i.e. estimate
{literally or figuratively}
End Biblehub.

"Interpenetrate" is important! We can hear the Gospel and believe and repent, then we are forgiven, and receive grace, sprinkled with the blood for a clear conscience and if not already a clean heart. Hebrews 10:22. The sacred blood infuses righteousness into us. Not the idea of mere reckoning or casting a shadow. The Spirit touched the great deep and in effect then was the change. Genesis 1:2

The word, faith, conviction, receive by faith, soften to it and there is infusion of righteousness. Similarly by faith and the sacred blood applied.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

In the Bible, the word "flesh" is used for the human body and for the sinful nature. But ones interpret this to mean the physical flesh is the problem. My opinion is there is our spiritual level of "flesh". It means whatever in us is capable of sinning, meaning at our spiritual level. But yes we have ones who blame the physical flesh for our sin problems

But it is not our physical DNA that passes on the spiritual problem of sin, I offer. But there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," our Apostle Paul mentions in Ephesians 2:2. My opinion is that parents with this disobedient spirit can infect their conceived children, right from conception. And this is why children very young already can be so about their own selves and able to lie and scream for their own way, versus having a natural tendency to share and care in love as family.

Below, I have quoted how Clare does not at all agree with this.

It seems we have three theories for how sin moves along through the family line. You seem to say through the physical flesh, which I do not blame. And I say the infection of Satan's spirit passes on right with conception. And Clare seems to be saying it is "imputed", which can mean we are born with the record.

Blaming the flesh?? lolololololololol "The flesh did it." It can feel like the flesh is getting us to sin, in my experience; however, I would say the real cause is deeper.

Well, charging me with what I am not guilty of doing, myself . . . might not be . . . just. But if Satan's evil spirit (Ephesians 2:2) passes on to me and infects me with selfishness . . . now it is my selfishness, my problem, and I am guilty.

Romans 7:17-23, and Paul explains that sin is in the flesh, but is not the flesh. Early gnostic heretis thought matter was evil, but the apostles and Paul explained that it was an error. Jesus and John the baptist were not sons of disobedience, John was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb. But John had a sinful nature. Jesus had a real body with no sin. He was given a human like nature.

 

[Clare73]

From Biblehub:
chashab: To think, plan, reckon, account, consider, devise, esteem
Original Word: חָשַׁב
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: chashab
Pronunciation: khaw-shab'
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-shab')
KJV: (make) account (of), conceive, consider, count, cunning (man, work, workman), devise, esteem, find out, forecast, hold, imagine, impute, invent, be like, mean, purpose, reckon(-ing be made), regard, think
NASB: considered, devise, reckoned, skillful workman, devised, regarded, calculate
Word Origin: [a primitive root]
1. (properly) to plait or interpenetrate, i.e. (literally) to weave or (gen.) to fabricate
2. (figuratively) to plot or contrive (usually in a malicious sense)
3. hence (from the mental effort) to think, regard, value, compute
logizomai: To reckon, to consider, to account, to think, to impute.
Original Word: λογίζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: logizomai
Pronunciation: lo-GHEE-zom-ahee
Phonetic Spelling: (log-id'-zom-ahee)
KJV: conclude, (ac-)count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on)
NASB: credited, consider, regard, regarded, take into account, considered, numbered
Word Origin: [middle voice from G3056 (λόγος - word)]

1. to take an inventory, i.e. estimate
{literally or figuratively}
End Biblehub.

"Interpenetrate" is important!

The Biblial usage of "impute" is not to "interpenetrate."

"Impute" is "to charge, account, reckon to". . .as God charged, accounted, reckoned righteousness to Abraham (Ge 15:6) because of his faith (in the promise, Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) not because of his moral performance. . .just as God reckons us righteous because of our faith in Jesus Christ (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The Biblial usage of "impute" is not to "interpenetrate."

"Impute" is "to charge, account, reckon to". . .as God charged, accounted, reckoned righteousness to Abraham (Ge 15:6) because of his faith (in the promise, Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) not because of his moral performance. . .just as God reckons us righteous because of our faith in Jesus Christ (Eph 2:8-9).

God's word and Spirit work together. Genesis 1:2 and the Spirit works creation with the spoken word. Genesis 6:3 and the Spirit convicts and guides men... Moses talks with Pharaoh later and Pharaoh responds to the Spirit by sadly hardening his heart.

For Abraham it was not moral performance but the Word and the Spirit. Then good works of obedience came. And faith works by love. Galatians 5:6

It is hard to read off paper and act accordingly.

So Paul writes in Galatians 3:1-15.

Justification by Faith​

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you [a]that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed [b]among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so [c]many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

The Law Brings a Curse​

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The Changeless Promise​

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. NKJV.

Paul here aligns Abraham's type of faith with the Spirit, also in the referring to Genesis.

The blood of Jesus is powerful and sacred like the Spirit, not annulled, it gives life. The covenant blood, and living water, for always and it's by faith or there is no sustained and perpetuated righteousness.

Acts 2:37. Hearing God's word through Peter, they were cut to the heart and asked for instruction and were given it and repented. The Spirit was there. What was He doing?

So I see infusion taking place, like chocolate stirred into milk.

Sin is in the flesh and we need the Spirit by faith. We are conceived, but did we exist before in human spirit form as sons and daughters of God?

 

[Clare73]

God's word and Spirit work together. Genesis 1:2 and the Spirit works creation with the spoken word. Genesis 6:3 and the Spirit convicts and guides men... Moses talks with Pharaoh later and Pharaoh responds to the Spirit by sadly hardening his heart.
For Abraham it was not moral performance but the Word and the Spirit. Then good works of obedience came. And faith works by love. Galatians 5:6
It is hard to read off paper and act accordingly.
So Paul writes in Galatians 3:1-15.

Justification by Faith​

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you [a]that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed [b]among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so [c]many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

The Law Brings a Curse​

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The Changeless Promise​

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. NKJV.

Paul here aligns Abraham's type of faith with the Spirit, also in the referring to Genesis.

The blood of Jesus is powerful and sacred like the Spirit, not annulled, it gives life. The covenant blood, and living water, for always and it's by faith or there is no sustained and perpetuated righteousness.

Acts 2:37. Hearing God's word through Peter, they were cut to the heart and asked for instruction and were given it and repented. The Spirit was there. What was He doing?

So I see infusion taking place, like chocolate stirred into milk.

Sin is in the flesh and we need the Spirit by faith. We are conceived, but did we exist before in human spirit form as sons and daughters of God?

We have no warrant from Scripture to think that we did.