• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Persecution from Evolutionists

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Hi there!

You may just want to gripe in this thread, I don't know.

What I wanted to say was they are basically afraid of two things: that you will not be "intimidated"; that they don't really know "what they are afraid of".

To them, intimidating you is just for kicks. There's no way to prove someone is not the animal they should be, so they just intimidate you for fun anyway, to fill the spiritual gap they don't know how to feed (not knowing Christ). So stand your ground (can you keep it up for a couple of thousand years? that would help).

The thing is, intimidating people comes at a price, especially when their theory is that things have to keep changing, and that price is that they are fundamentally insecure about being insecure. In other words, they don't really know in what way they should be "afraid" of "what?". If they intimidate you, that buys them time (because they are temporarily confident, in contrast to you), but as I said "fundamentally" they have no floor to stand on (just Hell).

Darwin is in Hell right now. He doesn't know what his theory means or why he is so frustrated. It's Hell. All he "knows" is that he had a chance to believe the Saviour, and he rejected it. He rejected it, and He rejected it in favour of fame that only lasts as long as people don't go to war and start to fight over truth, instead of simply studying it. That's it! It's an illusion! War negates discussion of truth, even imagined truth. Once Armageddon is on, his only saving grace is that giving people confidence to use trial and error might lead to weapons that actually save people's lives.

He will still be frustrated and confused, but Hell will not be as severe for him, because people will have a reason to fear what his work lead to, under the power of God (I wonder if he will get that, I don't know).

The thing is, we still have to put up with hate crime (remember WWII?) from people who don't understand that what he proposed was just deception, with theory tacked on to make it look legit. They can be saved, but will they realize that there is more than a life of frustration and confusion?

Remember: no one can refuse the Word, without giving up on a word they value.

If Evolutionists really followed this through, they would have nothing. No one can live without words, whether spoken or unspoken. The Word is Life! It is not Evolution... Sadly, someone of the world that has a false word, cannot be won over with simply more words. I used to debate Evolutionists (on these forums in fact) but I found that I was churning through arguments one after the other and not really getting anywhere. Even when I used principle, like letting others go first, they ridiculed me and even attacked their own theory to get at me (yes, they are not to be considered harmless!).

I don't think they really understood that they were undermining themselves - saying things like survival of the fittest is not really about the fittest - but that is not the point: the point is they don't understand their own carnal nature. They are blind and dazed, ready to dig the ditch into a bigger ditch: DO NOT HELP SUCH PEOPLE. I have decided to give it as long as possible before I consider debating them again (the main reason I did in the first place is that I am too argumentative anyway, as the Lord knows).

The thing is the Lord made me aware, scripturally, that our God is letting them have their day, for a season, in order to bring the scripture to light. You cannot actually prove them wrong, while God allows this, since there is a practical element to what they believe (it's not just for weapons of war, I was simplifying things to make the context of Armageddon clear) and because they have a practical element, there is a "chance" for them, for with works, one can justify much - much, but as we know as believers NOT EVERYTHING!

So yes, I am interested to hear your thoughts on this, if you have experience in it, but also to just share understanding and warning. It is not always that we have such a fickle enemy, capable of such evil, and since they are so pervasive in number, it behooves us to rally strength together. I hope the truths I have shared here are more of a help, and not a hindrance.

For the Lamb!
 

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
No one who makes an accusation is not in Hell.

Speculation that comes with experience, is still to be heeded.

Truth in the midst of confusion, is still as valuable as diamonds.

Tell me brother, if I am able to communicate this Wisdom, so simply, how is it you think I had none, when I said more?

EDIT: Comment to which this was a reply at some point removed. Thank you. I was deeply insulted and your absence is somewhat of a comfort.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Your post is full of vague ideas that don't make much sense.

And I know many Christians that believe in evolution. Are they in Hell?


The post follows the structure: fear, war, words.

If you look closely you will see that it follows this structure, so as to point to holiness.

Christians who believe in Evolution are partly in Hell, yes. Whether they keep believing it and end up there, is up to them.
 
Upvote 0

Ringo84

Separation of Church and State expert
Jul 31, 2006
19,228
5,252
A Cylon Basestar
Visit site
✟121,289.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Why are Darwin and Christians who believe in evolution in hell?

Is God so petty that He would reject those who believe in creation but also believe that perhaps He set a process of evolution in motion? If so, perhaps that says more about God than those who believe in evolution.

It sure seems like this so-called "persecution" from evolutionists consists mainly of evolutionists existing and having an opinion that differs from yours.
Ringo
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Why are Darwin and Christians who believe in evolution in hell?

Is God so petty that He would reject those who believe in creation but also believe that perhaps He set a process of evolution in motion? If so, perhaps that says more about God than those who believe in evolution.

It sure seems like this so-called "persecution" from evolutionists consists mainly of evolutionists existing and having an opinion that differs from yours.
Ringo

God would have you know there is such a thing, as sin. I can explain.

For the purposes of this explanation I will ignore the fact that you gave me your opinion before I asked for it, and I am telling you so (make of that what you will).

Now, considering the theory of Evolution further, I examined it's claim to history, that we came from apes, and I asked myself "What then is sin?" The answer God gave me is that sin for an Ape is to ignore what is categorical, when only by having used it to retain completion, as an Ape (by which Evolutionists understand to mean "survive"), can the Ape have continued to be holy.

Something which is not holy, dies.

Something which ignores dying categorically (as apes do, in sin) continues to die.

Something which continues to die, sins.

That is a demonstration of sin, in the context of Apes. Therefore, Evolutionists, though peverting their history, to that of an Ape, do not escape sin. Therefore, being holy, I retain a different opinion to it.

Because this difference of opinion does not fit the category of rule, to which Evolutionists think they have a right, on the basis of history, they persecute me. I therefore retain that difference of opinion, more than categorically, and therefore more than an Ape to which they are slave.

Sacrificing initiative to an animal is not wrong, if you can find something redeemable to justify it by. In no way have I attempted to say Evolutionists should not honour the category they have chosen to live by.

This is further proof of my innocence.
 
Upvote 0

Matariki

Love the Lord with all your heart, soul and MIND
Jan 24, 2011
704
39
New Zealand
✟23,620.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Christians who believe in Evolution are partly in Hell, yes. Whether they keep believing it and end up there, is up to them.

Partly? Can somebody point to me where in scripture it states that an individual can be partly in hell? :scratch:

Christians who believe in Christ and have passed on are in heaven. What they believe in terms of how God made the earth, including ourselves, is not what resulted in their salvation.

Did Christians go to hell after Christ died and rose again because they believed the earth was flat? Did the Christians of the middle ages go to hell because they believed that the sun rotated around the earth? The obvious answer is no. :doh:

Although I hold to Progressive Creationism, I don't believe that individuals such as John Calvin or Bishop Ussher are in Hell because they held to a Young Earth interpretation of Genesis. I believe that based on their ministries that there is good evidence that both of them loved Christ very much, trusted in his word and that he redeemed them. Likewise, so do those who hold to Theistic Evolution, or Progressive Creationism, or an Old Earth view (such as Saint Augustine).
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Partly? Can somebody point to me where in scripture it states that an individual can be partly in hell? :scratch:

Principle is enough. No man who does not cut sin completely off, knows how to rest on Earth (properly).


Christians who believe in Christ and have passed on are in heaven. What they believe in terms of how God made the earth, including ourselves, is not what resulted in their salvation.

I don't think you know that, because I don't think you've been to Heaven.

Did Christians go to hell after Christ died and rose again because they believed the earth was flat? Did the Christians of the middle ages go to hell because they believed that the sun rotated around the earth? The obvious answer is no. :doh:

Did they judge people because the Earth was flat?

Although I hold to Progressive Creationism, I don't believe that individuals such as John Calvin or Bishop Ussher are in Hell because they held to a Young Earth interpretation of Genesis. I believe that based on their ministries that there is good evidence that both of them loved Christ very much, trusted in his word and that he redeemed them. Likewise, so do those who hold to Theistic Evolution, or Progressive Creationism, or an Old Earth view (such as Saint Augustine).

You are smart enough to keep from judging people who are dead in the Lord, well done.

I don't really think you have addressed that Evolutionists persecute, however. Perhaps you will be in Hell for that, I don't know.
 
Upvote 0

Matariki

Love the Lord with all your heart, soul and MIND
Jan 24, 2011
704
39
New Zealand
✟23,620.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Principle is enough. No man who does not cut sin completely off, knows how to rest on Earth (properly).

Again, you have not cited scripture in your defense. And no, it is not possible to be a Christian without sinning. What the bible does point out is that A Christian cannot engage in sin without guilt, as God has given us a new heart and with that, a new conscious. Furthermore, though some actions made lead us towards the wide gate, those actions don't necessarily mean that we are destined to walk through it (the parable of the prodigal son is a good example of this - Luke 15:11-32).

1 John 1:8 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

John 5:22 - The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,

I don't think you know that, because I don't think you've been to Heaven.

Have you been to Heaven?

The bible states the following regarding salvation (note that there is nothing here about the Genesis creation account regarding science or literal interpretation - in the sense of how we interpet literature today eg; in a materialistic sense):

John 10:9 - I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Matthew 19:25-26 - When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Romans 10:9-10 - because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Hebrews 7:25 - Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Did they judge people because the Earth was flat?

Who's they?

You are smart enough to keep from judging people who are dead in the Lord, well done.

I'm smart enough to state that I don't know what God's finial decisions are regarding the personal salvation of an individual - whether they're in heaven or not. And to claim that I do know would be lying (as I am not a personal witness), but rather I go by the evidence and the fruits that have been produced throughout an individuals life.

I don't really think you have addressed that Evolutionists persecute, however. Perhaps you will be in Hell for that, I don't know.

Yes, you don't know. Only God knows. All I know is that I trust God based on the evidence that has been presented through the gospel, as well as the personal revelations that God has made to me throughout my life (the fact that I have a relationship with God). I am not a Theistic Evolutionist, but likewise I don't see any evidence in the bible that states that such people cannot be Christians, or that they're condemned to hell on the basis of believing that God could of used macro evolution as a means to create life. As for evolutionists persecuting, you have to be more descriptive than that; what sort of evolutionists are we talking about here (what worldview are they advocating)? And how are they persecuting?

BTW I know your post is a parody. But its scary to know that some Christians make assumptions about what scripture says without looking into it (yet alone citing it).

1 Thessalonians 5:21 - but test everything; hold fast what is good.
 
Upvote 0

Matariki

Love the Lord with all your heart, soul and MIND
Jan 24, 2011
704
39
New Zealand
✟23,620.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
There is nothing quick about your post.

My intentions were not to be quick. Walking with Christ and sharing the gospel is not a 100 meter sprint, its a marathon.

Or as Christ put it: Matthew 7:24 -“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

And Paul with 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 - Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Seek God.

I have, and everyday I continue to grow in my faith as I learn more about the wonderful creations that God has created for us, and for his glory.
 
Upvote 0

Ringo84

Separation of Church and State expert
Jul 31, 2006
19,228
5,252
A Cylon Basestar
Visit site
✟121,289.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I examined it's claim to history, that we came from apes

That is not what evolution theorizes. Instead, the theory is that the ape is a common ancestor of man - that is, we are almost genetically identical.

Now, considering the theory of Evolution further, I examined it's claim to history, that we came from apes, and I asked myself "What then is sin?" The answer God gave me is that sin for an Ape is to ignore what is categorical, when only by having used it to retain completion, as an Ape (by which Evolutionists understand to mean "survive"), can the Ape have continued to be holy.

Something which is not holy, dies.

Something which ignores dying categorically (as apes do, in sin) continues to die.

Something which continues to die, sins.

That is a demonstration of sin, in the context of Apes. Therefore, Evolutionists, though peverting their history, to that of an Ape, do not escape sin. Therefore, being holy, I retain a different opinion to it.

I don't follow this at all. It comes across as someone trying really hard to sound more scientific or smarter than they are.

Do you know what the theory of evolution is? "Life, once is appeared on this planet, slowly changed over time". That's it.

Because this difference of opinion does not fit the category of rule, to which Evolutionists think they have a right, on the basis of history, they persecute me. I therefore retain that difference of opinion, more than categorically, and therefore more than an Ape to which they are slave.

So people having a different opinion than you is persecution?
Ringo
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
That is not what evolution theorizes. Instead, the theory is that the ape is a common ancestor of man - that is, we are almost genetically identical.

You are making two claims as if they are one. I have already addressed the one that was presumed (falsely) to be closest to the truth.

I don't follow this at all. It comes across as someone trying really hard to sound more scientific or smarter than they are.

Geniuses frequently sound like they have a choice they don't have. Do you want me to pretend you know that?

Furthermore, since you resorted to an ad hominem attack, you will find that your lack of understanding remains unaddressed. That's not a problem if you can move on to something else.

Do you know what the theory of evolution is? "Life, once is appeared on this planet, slowly changed over time". That's it.

Change is a function of forgiveness. Nothing was automatically forgiven.

You will find the point of the gospel is that the price of blood, to God, is infinite.

(If you really believe your theory, you may want to think about this in the light of difficulty of assimilating anything that mutates in the absence of it).

So people having a different opinion than you is persecution?
Ringo

You know what persecution is. Ask God to tell you more.
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Why is this thread here? This clearly is not persecution.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

To simply state something is not persecution means you are either lying or being cruel.

Faith abates persecution, not remark.

A weed makes a remark and thinks it more than enough.
 
Upvote 0

Ringo84

Separation of Church and State expert
Jul 31, 2006
19,228
5,252
A Cylon Basestar
Visit site
✟121,289.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
You are making two claims as if they are one. I have already addressed the one that was presumed (falsely) to be closest to the truth.

No...you claimed that evolution states that man "descended from apes". It's not true.

Geniuses frequently sound like they have a choice they don't have. Do you want me to pretend you know that?

Furthermore, since you resorted to an ad hominem attack, you will find that your lack of understanding remains unaddressed. That's not a problem if you can move on to something else.

It's not ad hominem...just an observation.

Change is a function of forgiveness. Nothing was automatically forgiven.

You will find the point of the gospel is that the price of blood, to God, is infinite.

(If you really believe your theory, you may want to think about this in the light of difficulty of assimilating anything that mutates in the absence of it).

Yeah...I'm not seeing how this relates to the theory that life changes once it appears.

You know what persecution is. Ask God to tell you more.

Yes...I know what persecution is. Do you?

It's not "people disagreeing with my point of view".
Ringo
 
Upvote 0