[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] Planned Parenthood Falsely Accussed in Video

[Rationalt]

I don't understand this preoccupation.There are several threads on this same subject. From What I watched from the video(s) the person in charge was excited at the prospect of getting more money from late term abortions.

 

[KCfromNC]

No one's going to admit to a stranger things they are doing illegally.

I thought the whole point was that these videos are just full of self-incriminating statements. Is the narrative changing so now the videos prove guilt by not having them say anything incriminating at all? I wish we could get a consistent story here.

 

[Avid]

I thought the whole point was that these videos are just full of self-incriminating statements. Is the narrative changing so now the videos prove guilt by not having them say anything incriminating at all? I wish we could get a consistent story here.

It would be nice to have a consistent story, but we have heard high level individuals (White House Spokesman) say that these videos were edited to distort what was being said, even though the unedited video was available at the time.

I would not like to have to sit through hours of video to find specific things, and we have yet to have anyone show what was deleted that would change the tenor of the discussion recorded there! Maybe you can show what we were asking about that. Is your contention that these videos do not have PP & SE people talking about things against fed.law concerning the timing and manner of an abortion procedure, specifically to preserve body parts of the fetus that would then be for sale?

 

[Archivist]

It would be nice to have a consistent story, but we have heard high level individuals (White House Spokesman) say that these videos were edited to distort what was being said, even though the unedited video was available at the time.

I would not like to have to sit through hours of video to find specific things, and we have yet to have anyone show what was deleted that would change the tenor of the discussion recorded there! Maybe you can show what we were asking about that. Is your contention that these videos do not have PP & SE people talking about things against fed.law concerning the timing and manner of an abortion procedure, specifically to preserve body parts of the fetus that would then be for sale?

Perhaps this would answer your question: http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/07/14/attack-on-planned-parenthood-3-deceptive-edits/204419

 

[pat34lee]

"Releasing that information and the videos would subject federation members to "harassment, intimidation, violence, invasion of privacy, and injury to reputation," District Judge William H. Orrick III wrote in his decision issuing the order."

This goes right back to what I said. What these people are doing is so vile, or evil, that even their own side cannot publicly accept it. So they have to hide and lie.

 

[pat34lee]

Perhaps this would answer your question:

What would answer all questions is to publicize all unedited tapes. Put them on the news and Youtube, Facebook, Vimeo and every other video sharing site.

 

[revanneosl]

Well right now the videos are evidence in a criminal investigation for fraud and identity theft.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

Sorry folks, there has been some clean up. Please stay civil.

 

[Loudmouth]

No it's not. Whoever told you that is lying to you. Some vaccines were developed and are manufactured using a lineage of cells that, yes, were derived from fetal tissue from an aborted baby 40+ years ago. But you are talking about a line cells, not cells that actually came from an aborted child.

There are primary cell lines that can only survive a few passages before they stop growing. One example is SkMc, a muscle primary cell line that is continually harvested from human fetuses.

http://bio.lonza.com/uploads/tx_mwa...hSheet_-_Skeletal_Muscle_Cell_System_SkMC.pdf

 

[tall73]

The abortion procedure isn't altered to get the tissues intact.

That is what is being discussed in the most recent video:

http://www.centerformedicalprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/PPRMTranscript040715final.pdf

Up until this point no effort had been made by that particular clinic to modify the technique because they were not previously dealing with such specific research needs. Now the discussion is on whether techniques could be modified to get the parts desired.

Here is part of the transcript


Buyer:
So, what’s ideal is the organs that are requested should be intact.
Because, with stem cells, there’s only a certain ratio of the number of stem cells
you’re looking for with in the tissue type you’re dealing with, so and they also
tend to be a little more fragile. So, the more physically macerated the tissue
actually becomes, the actual number of viable stem cells you can isolate out of
that, if you’re a researcher, is just dropping, dropping, dropping. So that’s the
concern, actually, it’s kind of ironic because they’re not even necessarily using
the entire liver or the entire thymus but the cells they want to get out of it, have to
be protected by the whole tissue still having it’s integrity. So you don’t have that
piece, we have that piece, but yours is the method that you’re using, your
technique during procedures. That could be, if you knew what an intact looks like,
and how to preserve that, that would be something I don’t know, on your end, is
that something you could adjust or your procedure?

Ginde:Well, the thing is, unless you’re doing so, well I guess I would have this
question back to you, are you working with people who are changing their
procedure that delivers (inaudible) because I feel like some people are doing
induction, some are using KCL or dig.

Buyer:So, I doesn’t have to be induction, what’s ideal, some providers will
for example if there’s a request for liver, if it’s a D&E procedure, they can be kind of
conscious not to crush certain parts. Sometimes, converting to breach under
ultrasound guidance and uh, Dr. Nucatola is pretty good about that, in LA.

Ginde:
But she must be doing twenty-

Buyer:Yea, she’s doing twenty so it’s a little different.

Ginde:When you’re talking fourteen or fifteen weeks, you don’t really have that
control, because everything is so much smaller.So we have to see

Buyer:And so for those cases, are you doing D&E’s or is it aspiration, I don’t
think I know enough about that kindof mid trimester

Ginde:It kind of depends on the provider and the case, a lot of times it ends up
being aspiration, because as long as it fits through the cannula no one’s crushing
anything.

Buyer:
What do you extract with forceps at say, fifteen orsixteen weeks if you’re
doing a combined

Ginde:
Just the cal.

Buyer: Just the cal.

Ginde:You know, when you get to seventeen or eighteen weeks, because you
do get some of those, that’s when you’re doing a lot more of the D&E

Ginde:So that’s where we have to do a little bit of training with the providers on
making sure that they don’t crush or are able to —

Buyer: So it’s a matter of just training, it sounds like, to a provider.

Ginde: I think so. I mean, it’s hard to know how their specimen come out right
now because it’s not like we’ve been looking.

Buyer:Right. It’s not your-

Ginde:
We have to kind of see the baseline of how things are getting extracted
now and see if we can do any work with them to maybe be more gentle.

Buyer:Right. That’s what I’m excited to see today, is to get a handle on the
baseline, find out exactly what the volume is that we’re dealing with, the
gestational breakdown, if it kind of matches the data I was looking out for
January and February, and visual examination of the specimens afterwards to
see kinda what are we-baseline, what are we talking about here and how’s that
gonna-So, our answers will come after we see that. Just hearing that yes, you
could be open to training providers, that if they needed to adjust their procedure

Ginde:
Yea, if it wasn’t a major deal, like just some tweeks, I don’t think it would
be a major deal.


The rep seems open to the idea of minor tweaks to the procedure in order to get more of the research material.

 

[Catherineanne]

An organization calling itself Center for Medical Progress recently release a video supposedly showing a Planned Parenthood official discussing prices for the illegal sale of fetal tissue. After investigation it turned out that the video was deceptively edited. The fact is that a few Planned Parenthoods will donate tissues with consent in compliance with the law. Most Planned Parenthoods do not.

So, why the lie? Is stopping abortion so important that it is necessary to knowingly distort the facts? Why not tell the truth?

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

This is particularly serious if Catholics are doing it; Catholicism explicitly rejects the concept of the lesser of two evils; any evil is unacceptable, whatever the reason for doing it.

Even if that were not the case it does not do any organisation any favours if it is found to have misled people; once one lie is found there is no way of ever trusting it to tell the truth again.

 

[twob4me]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~MOD HAT ON!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okay this thread has gone through a major clean up to remove a LOT of Flaming posts along with a LOT of Off Topic (OT) posts. To give you an idea of how bad this thread was I had to remove about 4 pages worth of posts.

*shaking my head*

Can you all not conduct yourselves like ADULTS and have a peaceful and respectful conversation? It states this in the Flaming and Goading rules:

● Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue.
● Do not attack another member's character or actions in any way, address only the content of their post and not the member personally.
● NO Goading. This includes images, cartoons, or smileys clearly meant to goad.

As it states above you should be addressing the CONTENT of the post NOT the poster personally. You are not allowed to make Flaming/Goading remarks that are about groups of members such as republicans...
democrats...liberals...abortion activists etc.

There was also some discussion about staff actions. Please remember the rules state:

Please do not publicly discuss reported posts or staff actions taken on yourself or other members. Use the Member Services Center to submit questions and complaints about staff disciplinary actions or rules.

With that being said, this thread is being reopened so please keep your comments to the topic of the thread. If you continue to post like you had been this thread can and will be closed permanently and those involved may find themselves with staff actions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~MOD HAT OFF!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[KCfromNC]

This goes right back to what I said. What these people are doing is so vile, or evil, that even their own side cannot publicly accept it. So they have to hide and lie.

This is certainly a unique view of the reasoning behind the temporary injunction. Any reason for us to think your opinion has any basis in the facts of the case? I'm particularly interested in how you get that someone who is the potential victim of a number of crimes is in the wrong for not wanting the alleged criminals to post even more lies about them.

 

[Glass*Soul]

When tissues or organs are donated, what constitutes actually selling them vs the recouping of expenses for preparing and shipping them, for instance, if a surgeon removes a heart from a cadaver and a technician then prepares it to be picked up and taken to another location for transplant? If the surgeon and the hospital receive funds for doing these procedures is this tantamount to the selling of body parts?

 

[TLK Valentine]

It would be nice to have a consistent story, but we have heard high level individuals (White House Spokesman) say that these videos were edited to distort what was being said, even though the unedited video was available at the time.

And lo and behold, the unedited videos showed that the WH spokesmen were telling the truth.

 

[KCfromNC]

When tissues or organs are donated, what constitutes actually selling them vs the recouping of expenses for preparing and shipping them, for instance, if a surgeon removes a heart from a cadaver and a technician then prepares it to be picked up and taken to another location for transplant? If the surgeon and the hospital receive funds for doing these procedures is this tantamount to the selling of body parts?

You'd figure a group which thinks they have a smoking gun of obviously illegal activity would have addressed these questions when releasing the videos supposedly proving the wrongdoing... That is, if they actually have the incriminating evidence that they claim.

 

[Archivist]

You'd figure a group which thinks they have a smoking gun of obviously illegal activity would have addressed these questions when releasing the videos supposedly proving the wrongdoing... That is, if they actually have the incriminating evidence that they claim.

That was my initial reason for starting this thread. If this group has actual evidence then by all means make it public. If PP is violating the law then that needs to be brought forward. If that means defundiung PP so be it. However, thus far all we have seen is videos edited in such a way as to make PP look bad by removing portions of the interviews.

If the anti-abortion side truely holds the moral high ground, why the need to be deceptive?

 

[NightHawkeye]

Watch the videos showing the body parts of the dismembered babies.

 

[Avid]

This is particularly serious if Catholics are doing it; Catholicism explicitly rejects the concept of the lesser of two evils; any evil is unacceptable, whatever the reason for doing it.

Even if that were not the case it does not do any organisation any favours if it is found to have misled people; once one lie is found there is no way of ever trusting it to tell the truth again.

It would be interesting to know what lie is perpetrated here. Is there a segment of the unedited tape that indicates they were talking about buying & selling parts of surgical instruments and not aborted fetuses? (or anything like that?) Is there something that indicates there is a lie perpetrated here? Can you show where this lie is manifest? What false accusation is made in conjunction with the release of these videos?

 

[Catherineanne]

It would be interesting to know what lie is perpetrated here. Is there a segment of the unedited tape that indicates they were talking about buying & selling parts of surgical instruments and not aborted fetuses? (or anything like that?) Is there something that indicates there is a lie perpetrated here? Can you show where this lie is manifest? What false accusation is made in conjunction with the release of these videos?

There is plenty of information online; I suggest you Google for yourself.

You might care to check the meaning of the word 'if' while you are at it. Just a thought.