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[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] Outed

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I do understand why I stopped believing. When I examined my Christian beliefs closely, I found that they were not well justified.
True belief is not a superficial acknowledgment of God, but firm concrete faith regardless of personal inquiry. Belief doesn't need a justification, it simply just is. Reading the bible, attending church and praying doesn't make you a believer. You need to know God with your heart, not mind; trusting not in human understanding of the unknowable.
 
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Gordon Wright

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True belief is not a superficial acknowledgment of God, but firm concrete faith regardless of personal inquiry.

But OP isn't talking about either of these things. He's talking about a third thing: dogged persistence without understanding.

Belief doesn't need a justification, it simply just is.

Belief isn't enough. Faith is something more profound than belief.
 
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Apr 21, 2015
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Belief isn't enough. Faith is something more profound than belief.
I shouldn't really use those two words interchangeably as I do. The intent was to express faith rather than superficial or intellectual belief.
 
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LovelyGiselle

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I am very young--20 years old, and I came back to the faith. Between the ages of 15-19, I decided to leave using the excuse of my parent's strict upbringing for going astray.

However the real reason was wanting to conform with the world. In my experience and even in the testimonies of strangers, acquaintances, close friends and relatives around my age-group, the real reason for them was also more than just a bad experience with Christians or Christianity. For them, it was also wanting to conform with what was cool and politically correct.

I simply did not like the idea of hearing what I was doing is wrong, being held accountable for my sins against God, hearing that there is only one way, hearing that homosexual sex was sin (I had and still have gay friends and saw this as an "attack" of "bigotry" ) and I did not like hearing anything about preaching, punishment, and sermons period. Everything that was related to Christ just made me angry and I would mock it and make fun of what Christians believed.

I even became an agnostic at some point. I tried to play the whole "Oh I am enlightened" act. I remember that I also tried using the excuse of : "Well Christians do not act like Christ, therefor the bible is bullsh-t". I even tried rationalizing the guilt I felt regarding the things I would then support with:"Well the bible was written by men so there is nothing special about it." or "It was just a bunch of old misogynistic goat herders who were uneducated or lost in some desert"

Everything that was/is popular or politically correct to support, I hopped on it. All the corrupt/morally bankrupt things I tried to rationalize and support because I thought it made me "enlightened" and "not bigoted". For example - abortion, modern western feminism (which is very radical and delusional), transgenderism, the idea that morality does not come from God, etc

I rejected Christ not because the bible was full of errors, not because the bible was "stupid since Christians do not act like Christ anyway", not because Jesus Christ was not the only way, not because "the bible is sexist and hates women" but because it was more important to me to be "accepted" into the nonsense that is being passed as "right" in this world, instead of seeking the truth. Not being called a "bigot" and being part of what was popular was far more important to me than God.

I even took the rationalizations a step further and just looked for media reports on millennials becoming increasingly non religious, media reports on "the majority of Americans do not think the bible is the literal word of God" and media reports about the atheist population increasing.
I tried to use this in a way of saying: "Well clearly more millennials and older people are not taking the bible seriously so that means it must be obviously wrong".

Yet I still had the "itch"for seeking what was true and there was a point where I was close to being an atheist. Hopping on the bandwagon of what pop culture and the mainstream media supported did not fix anything.

Throughout this time, I also pushed away my god sister who tried to help me stay on the path to Christ. I just thought she was a "bigot", "ignorant", "hooked on the patriarchy", "delusional" and "not enlightened". I used every little excuse I can find to try to paint her as wrong or misguided so she can just leave me alone. I cant put it to words what exactly took off from there, but I decided to purchase a study bible (not instantly after but waaay later). I never actually had my "own" bible before in a way that it was very easy to read and understand. I came across one from Tyndale ( the Chronological life application study bible). In my opinion, the book changed my life. People need to honestly read the bible without some petty biased agenda to discredit it and actually see what it is telling us.

What also became the "turning point" was the fact that I began to honestly look at what I was dabbling into. I came to realize many of these things are not right at all despite what the mainstream media is telling us.

These things were all just rationalizations and euphemisms for something far more dangerous, sinister, narcissistic, extremely selfish, cowardly, purely heathenish and downright immoral.

I am actually grateful for this experience because it made me more aware of how the current state of things impacts alot of young people. I LOVE to warn others about conforming to the world whether it is is online or in person. People of all ages period need to watch out.
The mainstream wants to tell us what we WANT to hear and makes the agendas look good and feel good. The lets-just-do whatever-we-want and call it "progressing" or "enlightenment" charade is truly a tragedy. The strongest temptation IMHO with all age groups period (but especially with teens and young adults), is wanting to be politically correct/popular with the things that are being promoted in mainstream media.

However even despite my effort to do good now under God and promote good, even despite have the help of a really good study bible I always remember:

God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

EPHESIANS 2:8-9 NLT

My other faves:

Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.

2 PETER 1:20-21 NLT

For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. They will reject the truth and chase after myths.

2 TIMOTHY 4:3-4 NLT
 
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Archaeopteryx

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True belief is not a superficial acknowledgment of God, but firm concrete faith regardless of personal inquiry. Belief doesn't need a justification, it simply just is.
Faith, as you've defined it here (firm belief regardless of inquiry), is not a virtue.
Reading the bible, attending church and praying doesn't make you a believer.
But believing does. I believed. As I already indicated, I didn't just believe, but I acted on it through prayer, worship, attending church, etc.
You need to know God with your heart, not mind; trusting not in human understanding of the unknowable.
I believed I did know God with my heart, as many Christians do, because I was a Christian.
 
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LovelyGiselle

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Perhaps that applies to you, in that without Christianity you would be lost. But don't assume that this applies to everyone. Innumerable people have no need of it, and perhaps, neither do you.

This actually does apply to everyone, please be careful.
 
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Apr 21, 2015
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But believing does. I believed. As I already indicated, I didn't just believe, but I acted on it through prayer, worship, attending church, etc.

Like I said, professing something, even acting upon it does not in itself make a believer. I don't really know how to define it suitably. Uttering words is one thing, a complete conviction and unshakable trust is another.

I believed I did know God with my heart, as many Christians do, because I was a Christian.

I truly hope you do know God with all your heart.
 
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LovelyGiselle

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Which is why I no longer embrace it.

20And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before. 21It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life. 22They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.” And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud.”
2Peter2:20-22
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Like I said, professing something, even acting upon it does not in itself make a believer. I don't really know how to define it suitably. Uttering words is one thing, a complete conviction and unshakable trust is another.
I know how to define it suitably: a believer is someone who believes. It is as simple as that. I believed.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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2 Peter 2:20-22
Who said anything about "enslaved by sin"? You do know that people often leave their religion because of sincere doubts about its credibility and not because of a desire to engage in activities that their religion prohibits?
 
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LovelyGiselle

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Who said anything about "enslaved by sin"? You do know that people often leave their religion because of sincere doubts about its credibility and not because of a desire to engage in activities that their religion prohibits?


You seem to not understand what it truly means to be enslaved by sin. The entire human race is enslaved by sin and only Jesus Christ can save us from that. Being enslaved by sin also means rejecting Jesus Christ. For we sin everyday and we need the blood of Christ to cleanse us.

So when you reject God's truth, you are succumbing to the enslavement of sin.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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You seem to not understand what it truly means to be enslaved by sin. The entire human race is enslaved by sin and only Jesus Christ can save us from that. Being enslaved by sin also means rejecting Jesus Christ. For we sin everyday and we need the blood of Christ to cleanse us.

So when you reject God's truth, you are succumbing to the enslavement of sin.
In case it's not already not clear, I don't believe that to be true.
 
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LovelyGiselle

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No, it really doesn't. According to those of other religions, you're "lost."

You seem to have fell for the typical relativist type of approach: "Whatever you think is the truth is the truth and everything is the truth as long as some thinks it is the truth"

There is only one absolute truth. And if you reject it then you lead your own self to the path of destruction

Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

COLOSSIANS 2:8 NLT

Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.

2 PETER 1:20-21 NLT

For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. They will reject the truth and chase after myths.

2 TIMOTHY 4:3-4 NLT
 
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Archaeopteryx

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You seem to have fell for the typical relativist type of approach: "Whatever you think is the truth is the truth and everything is the truth as long as some thinks it is the truth"
Nope, not at all.
There is only one absolute truth. And if you reject it then you lead your own self to the path of destruction.
I'm a bit of skeptical of people who claim to possess the "one absolute truth." Epistemological conceit is not virtuous.
 
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LovelyGiselle

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In case it's not already not clear, I don't believe that to be true.

Not believing it to be true does not make God's word anything close to false.It is what it is. The bible has already told us and warned us about the narcissism and rebellion within us as human beings from the downfall of adam and eve.

We human beings have a tendency to be lead astray and think we know more than God and we can create our own little false reality of what it means to be "alright".
 
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Apr 21, 2015
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I know how to define it suitably: a believer is someone who believes. It is as simple as that. I believed.
This is only true if there exists no distinction between true believers or not. A child may believe in the tooth fairy, yet this is a superficial, short lived conviction.

Maybe faith is a more suitable term.
 
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LovelyGiselle

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Nope, not at all.

I'm a bit of skeptical of people who claim to possess the "one absolute truth." Epistemological conceit is not virtuous.

Again, you are basing yourself on purely relativistic arguments.
 
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