[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] A problem at the bottom of reason

[Archaeopteryx]

In reality, no, because he clearly can't.

This has just been an exercise, in one person, trying to protect their beliefs, by repeatedly telling themselves they are special and they have unique knowledge and the rest of us are being misled.

Rinse, repeat.

You would think that someone who possesses the knowledge he claims to possess would delight at the opportunity to share it. Instead he recoils whenever someone questions him on it. Call me crazy, but I'm beginning to suspect that maybe he doesn't possess the special knowledge he claims to?

 

[madera23]

You would think that someone who possesses the knowledge he claims to possess would delight at the opportunity to share it. Instead he recoils whenever someone questions him on it. Call me crazy, but I'm beginning to suspect that maybe he doesn't possess the special knowledge he claims to?

You cannot get spiritual knowledge from someone else, why do you keep trying?
Psalms "be still and know God".
meaning to meditate.

 

[Freodin]

You cannot get spiritual knowledge from someone else, why do you keep trying?
Psalms "be still and know God".
meaning to meditate.

You cannot get "spiritual knowledge" from meditation either... that's the problem.

You already named the problem: "self-righteousness".

You meditate. You aquire "knowledge". You compare this "knowledge" with the "knowledge" that someone else claims to have aquired by meditation. You find that it doesn't fit.
So what do you do? Have faith that you did it right and the other did it wrong? You wouldn't be better than Scott then... self-righteous.

So what can you do?

 

[bhsmte]

You would think that someone who possesses the knowledge he claims to possess would delight at the opportunity to share it. Instead he recoils whenever someone questions him on it. Call me crazy, but I'm beginning to suspect that maybe he doesn't possess the special knowledge he claims to?

Well, the exercise is really one to convince himself he has this knowledge and since he risks exposure by attempting to demonstrate this knowledge, that will be avoided and you will hear stuff like; you don't understand it, you aren't learning, it flew over your head, etc. etc..

Keep the waters muddied as long as you can, to protect the belief.

 

[bhsmte]

You cannot get spiritual knowledge from someone else, why do you keep trying?
Psalms "be still and know God".
meaning to meditate.

Because he keeps making the claim of having special knowledge. Do you believe he has this special knowledge?

 

[madera23]

You cannot get "spiritual knowledge" from meditation either... that's the problem.

You already named the problem: "self-righteousness".

You meditate. You aquire "knowledge". You compare this "knowledge" with the "knowledge" that someone else claims to have aquired by meditation. You find that it doesn't fit.
So what do you do? Have faith that you did it right and the other did it wrong? You wouldn't be better than Scott then... self-righteous.

So what can you do?

If you had any faith, you wouldn't be asking.
"Of yourself you can do nothing".

Meditate

 

[bhsmte]

If you had any faith, you wouldn't be asking.
"Of yourself you can do nothing".

Meditate

Faith in what?

 

[Davian]

The world is all the demonstration you will get.

The world demonstrates no geological evidence of a worldwide flood, or genetic evidence that the Earth was populated a tiny group of individuals and animals that survived that hypothetical flood, and the cosmos shows evidence of being far, far older than 6000 years. Prayer is not observed to work better than chance and confirmation bias, and "faith healers" that invoke the name of your god invariably turn out to be charlatans.

What exactly were you hoping to demonstrate?

 

[Davian]

The world is not reason enough.

Indeed.

It is his-story,

and you do not see him.

I do not see ghosts, goblins, reptilian humanoids, or extraterrestrial aliens visting Earth, but I am willing to consider compelling evidence from those having made the claims that they exist.

You have a choice: look harder, or be the same to him that he is to you (invisible).

Sounds like you

• Davian
• Nov 4, 2014

My part in your story, is finished.

'Bye.

 

[Davian]

You cannot get spiritual knowledge from someone else, why do you keep trying?
Psalms "be still and know God".
meaning to meditate.

We get proffered [claimed] "spiritual" knowledge here all the time. Getting it is not the problem.

By what means would you separate the those you think are offering accurate descriptions of reality from those that, by every other measure, appear to be charlatans?

 

[Freodin]

If you had any faith, you wouldn't be asking.
"Of yourself you can do nothing".

Meditate

I did. I do. I have faith.

And I completely disagree with your position.

How would you say this is possible?

 

[dlamberth]

Space, time, and matter.

I'm sorry to ask you to repeat yourself, I'm trying to catchup. What is it about the natural world that your looking at that is so controversial? Can you lay it out clearly so that my simple mind can understand?

 

[KCfromNC]

The world is not reason enough. It is his-story, and you do not see him. You have a choice: look harder, or be the same to him that he is to you (invisible). My part in your story, is finished.

I'll get over it.

 

[dlamberth]

The world is not reason enough. It is his-story, and you do not see him. You have a choice: look harder, or be the same to him that he is to you (invisible). My part in your story, is finished.

I don't believe He can be seen unless the natural world IS included in His-Story. Otherwise, all one has is part of the story.

.

 

[madera23]

I'm sorry to ask you to repeat yourself, I'm trying to catchup. What is it about the natural world that your looking at that is so controversial? Can you lay it out clearly so that my simple mind can understand?

It doesn't take your mind to understand it, it takes your soul.

 

[Eudaimonist]

It doesn't take your mind to understand it, it takes your soul.

In other words, not your mind. You must abandon your mind, the faculty of understanding, in order to "understand".


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[dlamberth]

It doesn't take your mind to understand it, it takes your soul.

Please explain. Is that Scott's perspective?

.

 

[ScottA]

I'm sorry to ask you to repeat yourself, I'm trying to catchup. What is it about the natural world that your looking at that is so controversial? Can you lay it out clearly so that my simple mind can understand?

Nothing bad. It is simply only part of the bigger picture, the part that was created for a greater purpose than is understood if one is not aware of the bigger picture. That purpose is finite and temporary. It is also a fabrication comparable to cyberspace: From within, all would appear to be complete and relative...and it is, for those who only live within the sphere of the world. But if one is also born [again] of the spirit of God, they are born out of the world and into the bigger reality of the kingdom of God.

The controversy here is due to the limited ability to demonstrate the greater reality of the kingdom of God within the lesser reality of the world...because the spirit and the flesh do not mix: flesh cannot enter the kingdom, therefore the carnal person cannot see it, and thinks of it as non-existent. The simplest way for the carnal minded to respond, is to deny it, rather than reason that even if they cannot perceive it, there is simply too much would be hubbub to be a coincidence. Because it cannot be ignored, the deniers end up here to vent their inner struggle.

 

[dlamberth]

Nothing bad. It is simply only part of the bigger picture, the part that was created for a greater purpose than is understood if one is not aware of the bigger picture. That purpose is finite and temporary. It is also a fabrication comparable to cyberspace: From within, all would appear to be complete and relative...and it is, for those who only live within the sphere of the world. But if one is also born [again] of the spirit of God, they are born out of the world and into the bigger reality of the kingdom of God.

The controversy here is due to the limited ability to demonstrate the greater reality of the kingdom of God within the lesser reality of the world...because the spirit and the flesh do not mix: flesh cannot enter the kingdom, therefore the carnal person cannot see it, and thinks of it as non-existent. The simplest way for the carnal minded to respond, is to deny it, rather than reason that even if they cannot perceive it, there is simply too much would be hubbub to be a coincidence. Because it cannot be ignored, the deniers end up here to vent their inner struggle.

Using my words to help me understand, so are you saying that because of the desire for a personal salvation from a flawed material world that otherworldly rewards supersedes all other concerns?

.

 

[ScottA]

I don't believe He can be seen unless the natural world IS included in His-Story. Otherwise, all one has is part of the story.

.

True: "If you have seen me (Jesus), you have seen the Father."