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Featured Perhaps today! The imminent return of Jesus Christ for His Church!

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19:14

    I look forward to being a part of that army!
     
  2. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Are you going to continue crying, or do you have anything at all to contribute to the subject of the thread? I have yet to see anything you have posted that refutes the OP in any way.


    Quasar92
     
  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    Looking forward to my white horse! :clap:
     
  4. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Why do people believe in a rapture?

    It is taken as read, that this means a rapture removal to heaven of all Christian people, either before the Seals, during the last 7 years, or at the Return.
    Unfortunately for those who would like to be outta here before anything nasty happens, there is no scriptural support for such a belief. The same applies for the mid-trib theory. But at the Return of Jesus, there will be a great lifting up and gathering of all the ‘elect, or chosen’, as Matthew 24:31 puts it and as Paul details in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

    Those who adhere to the idea of a pre wrath rapture, often cite ‘we are not appointed to wrath’. Firstly, we are told many times, that we must face trials and tests in order to prove our faith. But the real truth of how the Lord will save His people from His wrath, is by His protection. I can post 25 + verses that prove this is what is promised, not removal. Just read Psalm 23 and Psalm 91, they give amazing assurance that the Lord will protect and keep safe all who hold fast to their faith in Him.

    Then there is the real truth of what God plans for His people. The story goes back to Abraham, whom God chose to be the father of a people who would be His witnesses and become the light to the nations. The ancient Israelites failed in this task and God scattered them among the nations, but with the promise of their eventual gathering and redemption. We know for the N.T., that ‘not all of Israel are true descendants of Abraham’, it is therefore, true Christian believers ‘from every tribe, nation and language’, Revelation 7:9, that now comprise the Israel of God.

    People who believe in a rapture to heaven have been fooled by false teaching, just as Jesus said: Matthew 24:11, would happen and Paul says in 2 Timothy 4:3-4, that people will listen to those bad teachers and be deceived by them.
    Sadly, millions have been deluded into thinking that just belief in God is enough and they need do nothing else in order to be taken directly to heaven.

    But when the fiery trial comes, as 1 Peter 4:12 tells us it will, those who expected to be gone, will be shocked and terrified as the worldwide disaster of that Day, Luke 21:35, 2 Peter 3:7, strikes down the ungodly, Hebrews 10:27, Romans 1:18, and all who fail to stand firm in their faith. Matthew 24:10

    Many prophesies tell how the Lord will settle His people into all of the Holy Land, where they will at last be the people He always intended. These people will prepare the world for the Millennium Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31

    Then, after all that is prophesied to happen in the last days has taken place, the Lord will Return and bring all His righteous people to Jerusalem, all those who refused the mark of the beast and those from their place of safety. Revelation 12:14 The martyred saints will be resurrected at this time, Revelation 20:4, but the rest of the dead await the Great White Throne judgement at the end of the Millennium.
     
  5. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    Looking forward to my white horse! Giddy-up! Hyaaaa! Stampede!

    [​IMG]
     
  6. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm interested to see you quoting John Wesley. He was indeed a great man of God. But he didn't believe in a rapture. Do you still want to quote him?
     
  7. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    From the 1889 Methodist Hymnal: #55 by Charles Wesley

    1 THOU Judge of quick and dead, Before whose bar severe, With holy joy, or guilty dread, We all shall soon appear; Our cautioned souls prepare For that tremendous day, And fill us now with watchful care, And stir us up to pray:

    2 To pray, and wait the hour, That awful hour unknown, When, robed in majesty and power, Thou shalt from heaven come down The immortal Son of man, To judge the human race, With all thy Father's dazzling train, With all thy glorious grace.

    3 To damp our earthly joys, To increase our gracious fears, For ever let the archangel's voice Be sounding in our ears; The solemn midnight cry, "Ye dead, the Judge is come, Arise, and meet him in the sky, And meet your instant doom!"

    4 O may we thus be found Obedient to his word, Attentive to the trumpet's sound, And looking for our Lord! O may we thus ensure A lot among the blest; And watch a moment to secure An everlasting rest!
     
  8. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Wesley and his spiritual children are not into the future in the kind of rapture/left behind approach."

    "Friends, John Wesley would have been completely befuddled by the emotionally tinctured pre-, mid-, or post-tribulation "rapture question" conflict of our modern day. Why? Because he didn't know anything about any future seven year tribulation period to begin with, nor had he ever realized that the rapture of the church was something that could be separated from the general resurrection of the dead!"
     
  9. VARZR

    VARZR New Member

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    Rapture is 6th seal, a very short time after the abomination of desolation. I suspect very very shortly after.

    The church will return with Jesus to live on Earth for the millennium. You could make a pretty good case for a white horse but I cannot say for sure.
     
  10. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Mod hat.jpg
    MOD HAT ON
    This thread has had a clean. Please continue your discussion without flaming, goading, or going off topic with personal attacks.
    Moderator actions are also always imminent when we are given cause.

    MOD HAT OFF
     
  11. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; - Revelation 7:9

    And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19:14

    We will meet the Lord in the air and then stand before the throne, in white garments, ready to mount out white horses, to return with Christ to reign a thousand years! It is 12 chapters between Revelation 7 and 19. And I would think at least 3.5 years if not 7.0.
     
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  12. GUANO

    GUANO Well-Known Member

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    For the vast majority of all humanity, the "Day of the Lord" occurs when you die which is why you need to be prepared even when the 'time' seems far off.
     
  13. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    I believe in the seven churches as ages...

    Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
    Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
    Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
    Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
    Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
    Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
    Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

    [​IMG]

    Seven Candlesticks - The seven churches as outlined above
    Seven Stars - We are all stars within the churches, held in the right hand of Christ Jesus (Revelation 2:1)
    Seven Seals - All Christians have their name in the book of life, sealed within their congregation.

    1-2 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
    3-4 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
    5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. - Revleation 5

    If this is not the lambs book of life why all the ado?

    After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; - Revelation 7:9

    And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19:14

    We will meet the Lord in the air and then stand before the throne, in white garments, after we have assembled in heaven, ready to mount on white horses, to return with Christ to reign a thousand years! It is 12 chapters between Revelation 7 and 19. And I would think at least 3.5 years if not 7.0.
     
  14. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    To my pre-trib friends, are these two coming references in the same Book and chapter just a few verses apart the same or separate comings? Can you make a case from the text and context of this Book of 2 Thessalonians for your answer?



    2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

    2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:



    How many comings are in the below passage?

    2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  15. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    1. Most of the OP is opinion and needs no refuting .


    2. None of the scriptures posted in the OP prove imminency.


    3. Matthew 24:29-31, specifically refutes this OP.


    4. 2 Thessalonians 2:3, specifically refutes This OP


    5. Both Matthew 24:29-31 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3 are attacked by the pre-trib camp with multiple interpretations because their plain wording does refute this OP.
     
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