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Performing an exorcism

Discussion in 'Spiritual Gifts' started by dms1972, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Where is your authority based, on the Holy Spirit and scripture, or on man?
    Your church might not authorise you to do deliverance, but scripture clearly shows that it is the duty of all believers.

    Also, there are many here, myself included, who
    with no "man made" authority
    cast demons out as a part of normal Christian life.

    Matt12v28 "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."

    It was as a man not God that
    Jesus cast demons out, a man empowered by the Holy Spirit.
    We are also men (or women) empowered by the Holy Spirit, and we are commanded to do likewise.
     
  2. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Authority in the church has to be granted and recognised by the church. That's why we have ordination in the first place.

    I am not aware of any place in Scripture where deliverance is made the "duty of all believers." Please cite which verses you would use to support that claim.

    I am not saying that I could not do it, but that - to answer the OP's question - part of the reason many clergy don't do it may be for reasons of good order in the church.
     
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  3. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Deliverance is about regime change.

    Matt12v28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then has the kingdom of God come upon you."

    If a Christian is being oppressed, tormented, deceived, made sick, controlled, bound or driven in any way by demons, then it is the duty of his brothers and sisters in the Lord to facilitate regime change in his life.

    Just telling him that "Jesus is Lord", when he is bound by demonic powers is of little value. The powers that rule in his life know that story from prehistory but it makes little impression if it isn't applied against them personally.
    Those resident demons must be directly confronted and commanded to leave with the power of the Holy Spirit.

    Look at the words of Jesus again, especially the last half.
    Matt12v28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then has the kingdom of God come upon you.
    If we want to see the Kingdom of God in a man's life, then the emissaries of the kingdom of Satan must be booted out with extreme prejudice. Failure to do so is a betrayal of our calling.
     
  4. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    I'm not arguing against deliverance; I'm saying there's nothing wrong with ordering things so that it is handled by particular specialists to whom people in need are referred.
     
  5. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Jakey said it in Post19.
     
  6. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Oh, I didn't know there was these replies, not sure if I got notifications?. I'll read down them now.
     
  7. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    OK I have read down the thread.

    I don't want it to become controversial, so when I say exorcism, though I have never done this sort of ministry myself, I simply mean rebuking and casting out an unclean or demonic spirit by the Holy Spirit and with authority from Jesus, it's a command type prayer I believe.

    But nevertheless from my reading of christian biography, it can sometimes be a lengthy ministry with some afflicted people, needing several sessions. Doreen Irvine who became deeply involved in witchcraft and later became a Christian, yet had to have lengthy deliverance sessions following her conversion. If you've read her story you'll remember she heard the Gospel from an evangelist Eric Hutchings at a Gospel crusade. She had gone to in her own words "punch him on the nose", but several things happened notably a soloist singing a hymn with the words:

    No one ever cared for me like Jesus,
    There's no other friend so kind as He,
    No one else could take the sin and
    darkness from me.
    Oh! how much He cares for me.

    Later she was led to a minister called Arthur Neil who with some help from other ministers visited Doreen for several months performing deliverances until if I recall correctly over 40 demons had be expelled.

    Be careful if you research her on the internet as there is mis-information about her out there.

    I don't want this thread to become about demons, or the devil.

    Are you in pastoral work? Would you be allowed to assist in deliverance ministry in your church, sometimes ministry of this sort requires help from several people.

    There is nothing wrong with referring someone to a specialist, but I think if you are in pastoral ministry you should be authorised to deal with these things, provided you have the gift of discerning of spirits (not just a discerning nature), absence of that, or emotional instability would be the only things that precludes moving in this ministry I'd say.

    You might like to read Leanne Payne's book Restoring the Christian Soul, if you haven't, its very good on spiritual warfare.

    Just to be clear in posting the video, I am not saying that one can just copy another minister, clearly its matter of following the leading of the Holy Spirit.

    For the last 20+ years I have battled depressions in my spiritual life, I have never had a minister who seemed discerning, until I deliberately sought out someone who had this ministry, he said he wasn't discerning anything. Yet another minister nearly tipped me into anxiety-states when I went to him for ministry, also he demanded verbalised surrender of my will to the Lord, that's something I have done at different times in my life, and I wonder now if there was something wrong in the sequence of his approach or in his understanding of my difficulties at that time.

    So in many ways I agree with ministers needing to be very mature, understanding their authority in the LORD, emotionally stable, having a gift of discernment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  8. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    I'm a parish priest.

    You may think we should all be authorised for this work, but that is not the way things are done in the Anglican church (or some other churches). Personally, having seen the damage done by some cowboys who think they know what they're doing, but really don't, I'm quite happy to leave it to the experts.
     
  9. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Another thing, again not meaning to make controversy, but the use of Holy Water? This is somewhat looked upon as superstition by some Protestants, but to reference to Leanne Payne again (now absent from the body, present with the Lord) she went some way to explain the value of this in ministry, the principles behind the sacramentals.

    There is a liturgy for blessing water and salt for use as sacramentals.

    But writes Payne, "even [many] christians today are at bottom rationalists, materialists. We no longer understand the sacraments, much less the use of the sacramentals such as blessed oil and water, or sacramental actions such as the laying-on-of-hands in which we ourselves are the sacramental vessels."

    I really can't suppose many in the emergent church movement are any closer to understanding these things either.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  10. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree with avoiding the 'cowboys'.

    So have you someone you can refer people to. Under what criteria would you do this?
     
  11. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Radically Saved

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    You might want to leave that church and find out who you are in Christ.
    We are all COMMANDED to cast out demons and not play with them with this silly exorcism junk.
     
  12. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think everyone should be in full time deliverance ministry, and I did say people need other spiritual gifts and graces, and good emotional stability (I would not have that to the degree I think its needed at present). But Justification, Sanctification, filling of the Holy Spirit and Authority in Spiritual conflict all are available to believers in Christ and His Atonement. Sometimes believers need to take authority for their own spiritual well-being, there is a very good account of this in Payne's book, concerning a couple of seminarians who studying at college for ministry, one was taken ill, and after writing to her for guidance and describing their situation, she directed them to bless water, and use it in their own deliverance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  13. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes but not in Carman style. Please don't confuse genuine deliverance ministry with depictions in the films. That's the devil trying to make such ministry look nasty and extreme, such films are propaganda, the priest doesn't even perform an exorcism in that 'exorcist' film. The crowd should have asked for a refund! He becomes emotionally unhinged in the end. It is just propaganda.

    But even some christian music videos can give a false depiction, and interestingly Jude writes we are not to heap abuse on fallen angels, even though we still exercise authority over them. (see Jude 8-10)
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  14. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Basically, if I felt that the person I was dealing with/caring for needed it. Often people inquire about deliverance ministry and what they really need is good medical care. But not always.
     
  15. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'd recommend also Dr. Kurt E. Koch's book Christian Counselling and Occultism, its probably the most thorough treatment on the subject there is available, looks at the issue of occult bondage in light of Medicine, Psychiatry, Psychology, Depth-Psychology, Religious Psychology, Para-psychology and Theology.

    Even if you are not a practioner in deliverance ministry it would not do any harm have such a book handy, it has a lot of wisdom.
     
  16. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's interesting, we are taught to pray by Jesus "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven."

    A similar cosmology to what you mention is present in some of Dallas Willard's books.

    CS Lewis in his Science-fiction had a theory that the Moon was the limit of the Devil's influence, ie. he could not reach beyond the moon's orbit.
     
  17. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Radically Saved

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    What's interesting is those who insist God is in total control of everything that happens in this world and yet Jesus tells us to Pray His Will be done here in earth or this world as it is in Heaven.
     
  18. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    That passage is not talking about exorcism or demon activity at all.
     
  19. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    It was a "lost art" for centuries at least in protestant circles.

    Many cessationist theologies actually believe that all demonic activity ceased at the cross. (even though it is described in Acts) Any kind of supernaturalism is rejected as not being real by them.

    Lester Sumrall and Derek Prince were the main 2 pioneers that brought this important ministry back into focus for pentecostals and charismatics.

    I am fortunate to have sat under the ministry of both of those men of God.
     
  20. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    And that is wise IMO. To my understanding, that is NOT something that should be attempted without the minister(s) having the gift and being trained in Discerning of Spirits.

    There have been a couple of times that gift came on me and I could see exactly what was going on; and there were no trained practitioners so I did the job. It did work out; but I would not recommend it. At some points I certainly was fumbling my way thru the process.
     
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