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We must be trying; we won't win the battle over the flesh...the sinful nature...God makes this clear to us in that He sent His son, Jesus Christ. Through faith we are declared righteous. We are sanctified by His Truth [His Word] --John 17:17 so, does He demand perfection? Yes, that kind of perfection, faith and faithfulness, which only He can truly measure in a man.So, in a recent discussion I came across the view that God does not demand perfection in the keeping of His commandments.
Anyone else feel that way?
Thankfully, God has promised to reckon me righteous, i.e., perfect, on the basis of Christ's vicarious atonement.
No, but you said love one's neighbor as himself was as easy as falling out bed, essentially. You that we just to walk like Jesus, as if there something one could do.
The Mosaic Law is no longer in existence; And to say that there is no Law or commands for believers today under the New Testament would be to be to read the NT with a blind fold on.
#1. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
#2. The temple veil was torn from top to bottom with Christ's death. This means that the laws on animal sacrifices are no longer acceptable. The priesthood is no more. Jesus is now our passover Lamb and sacrifice. Jesus is now our priest who intercedes on our behalf.
#3. Jesus says that we are no longer to render an eye for an eye but we are now to turn the other cheek.
#4. Paul says that we are not to judge according to Sabbaths and some regard all days alike in regards to Sabbath keeping (See Romans 14 and Colossians 2). In the OT, you could be stoned for not keeping the Saturday Sabbath. Do you believe in stoning others for not keeping the Sabbath still?
#5. Peter was told by God to eat unclean animals (Which is a violation of OT Law).
Even the moral laws that have carried over from the OT into the New like "do not commit adultery", etc. are not attached with death penalties anymore if they are not obeyed.
So yeah. To say the Law has not changed is simply not true.
...
Yes.
But perfect obedience is not a salvation issue even though it is the goal of our Sanctifcation in this life.
However... if you do not agree with striving to be perfect (Which is the goal of our Sanctification) or if you think you can sin and still be saved on some level, then there is a serious problem. It would be going against God's holiness.
OSAS.
and it's funny, I know people that go by just that, and the problem, if they don't have to they won't, and end up being some of the meanest people I know because in their mind they can be.
When I was young/a kid, I always got the idea we basically need to try to be good to get to heaven then this new age deception came along. The deception the devil loves, and will end many up in hot water.
But it's all up to the individual and only their own fault, as they choose to deceive themselves because they want the easy way...nothing new abou the actual concept
With OSAS, there is no "narrow path", it's all a "wide road" and that's not biblical, so it should be clear there is something bad wrong there because that is the Bible standing against itself and we all know what happen to a house in that condition..
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
I have a different theory about the wide road, and it's based on my experience with many people in many churches, and many board conversations.
so, does He demand perfection? Yes, that kind of perfection, faith and faithfulness, which only He can truly measure in a man.
When did I ever say there was no command to obey in the New Testament? I think you should reread my replies. I very plainly stated there is a command we must follow, but it is the only one.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
To love your neighbor as yourself fulfills the entire law of God.
1 John 4:20
Actually the whole epistle of 1 John talks about this.
So does God demand we obey his COMMAND perfectly... yes he does, but if we stumble we can ask for and expect forgiveness.
What in your view is perfection? I laid out the type of perfection I believe Christ requires of us. Christ makes us perfect or righteous by our faith. We at times b/c of our sinful nature take our eyes off Christ and are led into sin. Are we irredeemable? No. Christ extends mercy to the truly repentant and grants forgiveness. Is that perfection? If your definition of perfect is "sinlessness" then clearly God does not expect that of us. But as Jude says we are not to change the grace of our God into a license for immorality.Sorry. You lost me. He does demand perfection or He demands something less than perfection?
What in your view is perfection?
If your definition of perfect is "sinlessness" then clearly God does not expect that of us.
We then are close in our thinking...though I'm not sure. When you say does God demand perfection or sinlessness do you mean in order to get to heaven? My answer is No...Well, with respect to God's commandments, it would mean keeping the law in its entirety without error.
If God did not expect sinlessness, then why did Christ have to die in your place?
In case you are confused about my stance (and it seems you may be), I believe God does demand of us perfection, i.e., sinlessness. That is not to say we are capable of achieving that, at least not in this life. It changes nothing with respect to His expectation. A holy God could demand nothing less than sinlessness. That is the very reason Christ had to die on our behalf, to meet the requirement we were incapable of meeting.
We then are close in our thinking...though I'm not sure. When you say does God demand perfection or sinlessness do you mean in order to get to heaven?
We are tarnished with the sinful nature until heaven where the curse is removed according to Revelation...therefore sinlessness cannot be achieved on this side of heaven. Aiming for perfection can be achieved.
Why do you think that God demands perfection? I recall that there is a verse saying that God finds fault even in the angels (presumably good angels) yet God appears to accept the good angels.So, in a recent discussion I came across the view that God does not demand perfection in the keeping of His commandments.
Anyone else feel that way?
Why do you think that God demands perfection?
Is there a passage of holy scripture that says that God demands perfection of human beings?Well, aside from the fact that a holy God could demand nothing less, there is the obvious answer that God's requirement of perfection is the answer as to why Christ had to atone for His people. If God required less than perfection, you could have atoned for your own sins.
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