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No, it means that while you remain in Christ you are Blessed. Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.A person who abides in Christ cannot commit sin. This means while you abide in Christ it is not possible to sin.
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Mt 5:48 You therefore shall be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. The OT commandments have been replaced, not nullified by an obedience to OUR mind of Christ. If we are in relationship with Lord Spirit we will have all desire of the "old man's" wretchedness replaced by OUR desire to please Lord and not self. Hebrews talks about a pure conscience. Christ in US is OUR righteousness which is interwoven with faith, and believe (which is trust and obey <> Strong's G4100)So, in a recent discussion I came across the view that God does not demand perfection in the keeping of His commandments.
Anyone else feel that way?
I do not believe your teachers have got it right. The great command is quoted from the OT; what Christ has done on our behalf is die in our place, shed His blood for the remission of sin; which is some of God's part in the covenant.
That God or Jesus has fulfilled the Law so that we do not need to is a paraphrase of or simile to Gen 3:1-5.
Genesis 3:1-5 (NKJV)
1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, 'You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?"
2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;
3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.' "
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Perfect law keeping is just that perfect, no sin and perfect law keeping was the only way under the law of Moses one could be justified before God. Therefore Paul's point in Romans 4 is that neither Abraham nor David were justified by the OT work of flawless law keeping but rather were justified by an obedient faith. Neither man was perfectly sinless but both had an obedient faith in repenting of their sins thereby receive God's forgiveness.
It is true that Jesus makes us perfect, but this is at the moment when we first accepted Christ. From that point we have to continue in Christ and strive for perfection as the goal of our Sanctification. At least that is what Paul essentially says in Philippians 3.
“Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 3:12).
I don't mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me. (Philippians 3:12 NLT).
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I do not use Paul as an authority;
I do not use Paul as an authority; "Perfection" is an interpretation that brings with it a marble statue kind of concept; a Biblical example of perfection is Jesus Christ raised to eternal life, the first of the new creation; any raised to eternal life will have the same perfect form as He.
No, it means that while you remain in Christ you are Blessed. Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
In Christ
Daniel
Do you break the spirit of or behind the commandments (which we are to discern) ,from time to time...?In other words, if a person breaks just one commandment of God at this very moment, they are breaking God's commandments. For if you break one law you break them all (James 2:10).
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You just can't help yourself quoting scripture out of context, cherry picking ones and twisting them to support your own point of view and ignoring scriptures like 1 John 1:8-10 which is something John chooses to open with, right after his greeting and before he says anything else...No. He that commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8).
Everyone who does evil hates the light (John 3:20).
If one hates their brother no eternal life abides in them (1 John 3:15).
Anyone who does not righteousness is not of God (1 John 3:10).
If we claim to have fellowship with him and walk in darkness we lie and do not the truth (1 John 1:6).
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4).
He that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7).
If we walk in the light as he (Christ) is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).
Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).
As for Romans 4:8: Well, this is reference to Initial Salvation (Justification). This is the receiving of Jesus Christ as one's Savior and believing in His death and resurrection for salvation. It is talking about Initial Salvation which is then followed by works or the process of Sanctification (the next step or stage in the salvation process). This is the Lord doing the good work in you; So a believer cannot pat themselves on the back and or to scream to people, "Hey everybody! Come see how I good I am." Jesus deserves all the glory, honor, and power. God's grace is a means to overcome sin and His grace is not a license to sin.
Anyways, if you were to continue to keep reading, it says the following,
21 "And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness."
(Romans 4:21-22).
Verse 21 says that Abraham being persuaded (belief) he was able to perform (works), And this was imputed to him as righteousness. 1 John 1:7 says a similar thing. If you walk in the light as he (Christ) is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses you of all sin. Are you walking in the light of Christ. This is paralleled with keeping his commandments (See 1 John 2:3). Walking in darkness (1 John 1:6) is paralleled with not keeping his commandments (See 1 John 2:4).
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Actually it's the reverse. God forgives our imperfections, but he does call us to be perfect: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48 We can't do this by ourselves, but with the grace of God, over the course of our life and the next, we will indeed be purged of our character flaws before we enter heaven.So, in a recent discussion I came across the view that God does not demand perfection in the keeping of His commandments.
Anyone else feel that way?
He meant if you want to get to God on your own merits (the law, old covenant) Some translations say, ye "must be" perfect, (as your heavenly father is perfect)...Actually it's the reverse. God forgives our imperfections, but he does call us to be perfect: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48 We can't do this by ourselves, but with the grace of God, over the course of our life and the next, we will indeed be purged of our character flaws before we enter heaven.
Do you break the spirit of or behind the commandments (which we are to discern) ,from time to time...?
@Jason0047 , you claim that your view is based on scripture, but others are not, claiming scripture as your primary authority (and not the Spirit of God, that allows you to interpret scripture) anyway, then you throw away or toss out scripture like John 1:8-10, and others...?
You just can't help yourself quoting scripture out of context, cherry picking ones and twisting them to support your own point of view and ignoring scriptures like 1 John 1:8-10 which is something John chooses to open with, right after his greeting and before he says anything else...
You do not "interpret" or "discern" scripture, to find the truth in between two juxtaposed points in them...
There may be scripture to support that, if you want to be like God, you must be sinless, but there is also scripture to support that it is impossible for a man to be sinless like God, or to be like God...
You said:Pointing out the need for grace, those scriptures that support sinlessness if taken in context and considering the entirety of scripture, You would know that that was meant to "catch" men in their own pride and cunning, and then, when they realize the truth that they fall short, restoring them, after that...
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