Percentage of Americans Viewing Scripture...

Which of the following statements comes closest to describing your views about the Bible?

  • The Bible is the actual Word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word.

  • The Bible is the inspired Word of God but not everything in it should be taken literally.

  • The Bible is an ancient book of fables, legends, history, and moral precepts recorded by man.


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rjs330

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That's very much debatable, to say the least. And at any rate, considering much of that "help" came as the result of colonial exploitation, I wouldn't be eager to own up to those deeds as a Christian.

It's not debatable in the least. As the left is so fond of pointing out. The colonists were not all Christians.

Some were some were not. And Christians can grow and learn too. Just like everyone else. We are the most compassionate group of people.
 
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FireDragon76

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It's not debatable in the least. As the left is so fond of pointing out. The colonists were not all Christians.

Some were some were not. And Christians can grow and learn too. Just like everyone else. We are the most compassionate group of people.

Compassion is not confined to a particular religious ideology. And many Christian doctrines or practices mitigate against cultivating compassion, in my experience (such as doctrines that suggest that gay people are sinful).
 
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FireDragon76

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Yes of course you can. And you should. Conservative Christian scholars, who are in the majority by the way

What do you mean by "conservative Christian scholars". At accredited universities, the sort of attitudes you are describing are not in the majority among biblical scholars. In accredited universities, the vast majority of scholars use a critical approach to the Bible.

When I was trained we absolutely looked at scripture using that kind of evaluation as well as accepting it as the inspired Word of God.

At accredited, respected universities, they don't believe in handling the Bible with kid gloves and only considering it "the inspired word of God".


Otherwise it's just a dead meaningless book with some interesting stories.

This represents extremist, all-or-nothing thinking on your part. One can appreciate the Bible for its historic and cultural significance without viewing it as "a dead meaningless book" on the one hand, or "the infallible truth" on the other hand.
 
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FireDragon76

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What's the split between biblical maximalists and biblical minimalists these days? Seemed like minimalists were decidedly in the ascendancy in the 2000/early 2010s, but I've not kept up much recently.

Outside of US Evangelical circles and a few other denominations, the number of Christians who accept a Biblical literalist approach is a strict minority (typically 25-30% of the wider Christian population). I'd argue that amongst professional biblical scholars, that proportion would be much, much lower.

Among even conservative Christians in historic denominations (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians), the number is very low, indeed.
 
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Estrid

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I suppose you are referring to me. But I'm not falling for that. Because I never once said some who claimed to be a believer wasn't.
As so often seen in these pages, you suppose wrong.
 
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Estrid

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There is evidence for a flood. But I don't see the point in bringing much of it up. I've had these conversations before. The issue is we don't know enough about what the earth was really like back then. Not at all. We don't know what the atmosphere was like, what the land was like. How much land vs water there was. Here's something to chew on. We know very little about what's at the bottom of our oceans.

Anyway, this is all I am going to post on this subject anymore.

Evidence Noah's Biblical Flood Happened, Says Robert Ballard

A recently discovered fossilized forest in Antarctica could be evidence of the Bible's great flood

We have fish on Mount Everest. We have evidence of a great flood in China. There is geological evidence beneath the Earth's surface is Russia. There was a vast lake in Canada that the water suddenly fled out of.

I mean there are all kinds of things like this all over the earth. Those that don't believe in the flood just dismiss it with other explanations. Explanations by the way that they just don't know. And that's my point we just don't know everything. To say we do is beyond ludicrous.

As we know science is not exact and is learning all the time. Who knows what might be discovered in the next 200 years or so.

So there's no point in continuing this conversation.

Fundamentalist Christian beliefs thrive among the
uneducated.

There is evidence for a flood. But I don't see the point in bringing much of it up. I've had these conversations before. The issue is we don't know enough about what the earth was really like back then. Not at all. We don't know what the atmosphere was like, what the land was like. How much land vs water there was. Here's something to chew on. We know very little about what's at the bottom of our oceans.

Anyway, this is all I am going to post on this subject anymore.

Evidence Noah's Biblical Flood Happened, Says Robert Ballard

A recently discovered fossilized forest in Antarctica could be evidence of the Bible's great flood

We have fish on Mount Everest. We have evidence of a great flood in China. There is geological evidence beneath the Earth's surface is Russia. There was a vast lake in Canada that the water suddenly fled out of.

I mean there are all kinds of things like this all over the earth. Those that don't believe in the flood just dismiss it with other explanations. Explanations by the way that they just don't know. And that's my point we just don't know everything. To say we do is beyond ludicrous.

As we know science is not exact and is learning all the time. Who knows what might be discovered in the next 200 years or so.

So there's no point in continuing this conversation.

A point for you is whether it is wise to accuse the God
you nominally worship of committing such a vast atrocity as
described in genesis.

Sure, there is "evidence," such as you speak of.

God, it may be presumed, equipped people with brains, and expects
people to be responsible, and use them.

The evidence you speak of is on the level of the " evidence"
exclaimed over when I was at Uni in NYC, walking across
campus with another girl one autumn day.

A fine red maple leaf fell at our feet. "Look", she says, "It's a
Sign from God, to represent the Trinity!"

"So why does it have five parts?" I asked.

" Oh, you are right. It represents the Pentarch!".

Thing about evidence is it varies in quality and needs
interpretation in it's context. Use of some brains.

Sure, you can find seashells in Kansas. Quick glance, oh, it's a
Sign of the flood. Careful study of the geology
shows how impossible that is.

Someone can find an empty whiskey bottle and conclude
it is evidence that your drunk driving resulted in criminal
manslaughter. The theory is advanced that you did it!
You re on trial!
More evidence comes in!

But if investigation shows that A) said bottle was left in the car to
frame you but more importantly that C) you were having high tea.
with Queen E at the time, the theory of your guilt is disproved.

That is how science works. Meticulous investigation,
and, if there is data contrary to the theory or.hypothesis
then they are disproved and abandoned.

Polar ice alone disproves any and all the so- called
flood evidence.

Anyone claiming to be a scholar in any field.
ought to know how that works. It's not just
science that values meticulous study and
the understanding that data contrary to n
idea diproves it, no matter how precious it is.

The fundamentalist mindset is the opposite of
scholarship and intellectual integrity.

To illustrate, we present Dr. k Wise, PhD paleontology:
" ...even if all the evidence in the universe turns against
Yec, I will still be yec as that is why the bie seems to
indicate.".

Dr W. is no scholar nor is it possible to be n intellectually
dishonest scholar.
 
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Aabbie James

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Many who call themselves Christian will be turned away at Heaven's Gate because Jesus will say unto them, "I never knew you." Many travel the broad road, few the narrow path.

Natural man cannot hear the Holy Spirit's call. But if they hear that call and seek God, they will find Him; if they knock, Jesus will answer. He says so in His Holy Word.

The favorite sport of many non-believer's in Christ Jesus is bashing His followers and denying the one true living God from whom they receive life, grace, and truth. There is no other way to God but through the Son.
 
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Estrid

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Many who call themselves Christian will be turned away at Heaven's Gate because Jesus will say unto them, "I never knew you." Many travel the broad road, few the narrow path.

Natural man cannot hear the Holy Spirit's call. But if they hear that call and seek God, they will find Him; if they knock, Jesus will answer. He says so in His Holy Word.

The favorite sport of many non-believer's in Christ Jesus is bashing His followers and denying the one true living God from whom they receive life, grace, and truth. There is no other way to God but through the Son.

Hmm. That's kind of rude. What atheist do
you ever see bashing anyone for being Christian?
 
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BPPLEE

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Oh, it's real.
Disproving a fallacy 6 ways from Sunday? Surely you jest.

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia. And no, I am not so dim.witted or naive You just misunderstood. Of course I don't believe the bunk.

But. We are not impressed with claims of knowing the really really right truth, unlike them others.


Christians are constantly warring over who has the True reading and the True faith.
IF you guys ever got your act together, and, got over things like literal Noah's ark you'd get a more attentive ear from the not- so- naive- as- you- think, who observe the antics.
I don't want to get in the argument between you and rjs330 but you have a valid point about all the infighting that goes on between Christians.
 
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Estrid

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I don't want to get in the argument between you and rjs330 but you have a valid point about all the infighting that goes on between Christians.
If it even qualified as a argument it's done now.
 
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Pommer

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I don't want to get in the argument between you and rjs330 but you have a valid point about all the infighting that goes on between Christians.
I generally stay out of threads where Christians are fighting one another, but boy is it entertaining as all get-out!
 
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rjs330

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Compassion is not confined to a particular religious ideology. And many Christian doctrines or practices mitigate against cultivating compassion, in my experience (such as doctrines that suggest that gay people are sinful).

There we hit upon it. I was waiting for this to raise it's head. Its not that Christians are not compassionate it's that Christians believe homosexuality is sinful.

That's really it isn't it. It's what it always seems to come down to these days. It's not that Christians aren't giving and kind as I demonstrated and could give many many more illustrations of this, but that Christians believe homosexuality is sinful.

Jesus states he came to seek and save the lost. And he is often recognized even by unbelievers as a man that loved people. I mean that's why he died right? At least that's the claim.

Yet how can he seek to save the lost if he is unable to point out you are lost? He did that very clearly to two separate women.

Jesus called for repentance from sin. How do you do that without telling people they are sinners?

Jesus said that he rose from the grave and that repentance and forgiveness for sins will be preached to all nations.

The apostles preached repentance from sin.

If you have no idea or no belief you are a sinner you have no need to repent of anything.

If anyone, including homosexuals, say they are not a sinner, then we are called to tell them they are and that the love of Christ was to die for them and his death and resurrection was to live and save them when they repent.
 
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rjs330

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What do you mean by "conservative Christian scholars". At accredited universities, the sort of attitudes you are describing are not in the majority among biblical scholars. In accredited universities, the vast majority of scholars use a critical approach to the Bible.

You know there are a lot of accredited Christian universities right?
 
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rjs330

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In accredited universities, the vast majority of scholars use a critical approach to the Bible.

The vast majority of scholars have degrees given to them by accredited universities. And guess what they use a critical approach to the Bible too. I think you have a great misunderstanding of Christian scholars.
 
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rjs330

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At accredited, respected universities, they don't believe in handling the Bible with kid gloves and only considering it "the inspired word of God".

Are you aware that Christian scholars get their degrees from accredited universities and do not handle the Bible with kid gloves and do not ONLY consider the inspiration of it? It seems you are really misinformed. I think I've been saying this quite a bit. I'm beginning to wonder if you are just closing your eyes and ears. I don't really want to keep repeating myself.
 
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rjs330

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Christians are constantly warring over who has the True reading and the True faith.
IF you guys ever got your act together, and, got over things like literal Noah's ark you'd get a more attentive ear from the not- so- naive- as- you- think, who observe the antics.

You know I can't disagree with you here.
We Christians do infight way to much. There is a place for it. In fact Paul talks about challenging false doctrine.

But we do fight too often over stuff that doesn't matter and Paul admonishes us not to do that. I try not to do that, but like every other human I fail sometimes.
 
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Estrid

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You know I can't disagree with you here.
We Christians do infight way to much. There is a place for it. In fact Paul talks about challenging false doctrine.

But we do fight too often over stuff that doesn't matter and Paul admonishes us not to do that. I try not to do that, but like every other human I fail sometimes.
I'm big on human failings. Almost a specialty.
 
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Estrid

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Bashing comes in various forms like being called uneducated.

Welllll.. if a person is uneducated then what's to say?
I can't speak Mandarin. I'm not very good at math.
I'm uneducated in those fields.

I never would " bash" anyone for being Christian.
It's a noble faith regardless of human failings.

When in connection with their version of
Christianity a person wanders off the reservation
and tries to present that he knows
things he clearly does not, well, I may well
be blunt about saying so.

Some people's version of Christianity
blinds them to evenc ommon sense so that they
feel righteous determination to pretend to
understanding things about which they are
as clueless about as I am about auto
mechanics or American football.

I might as well read Maos little red book
and say now I know enough to do a superball
after game show!

I would never go pronouncing deep knowledge
of those, the way creatuinusts do as if they have
clue one about geology or biology, and so say the
stupidest things with no hint of self awareness or
embarrassment.
That earns a bashing far beyond my powers to deliver!

But really it's just kind of sad and pathetic.
 
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