People without borders – What would you do?

[Mountainmanbob]

You didn't address the "world wide mass migrations that have now become the norm". I find your fantasy solution to a fantasy problem lacking.

Actually their solution offered was a very simple and complete one that would take care of the whole problem in short time.
M-Bob

Here is what Desk trauma wrote --
In this imaginary world where the president has these powers and I am that person, I would create an enhanced version of e-varify with photo ID associated with it and make its use mandatory for all employers. Along with that there would be serious fines associated with employing illegal labor with strict enforcement. Once the economic motivations are removed the economic migrants will stop coming illegally and the ones already here will have little choice but to leave.

 

[afishamongmany]

We have nothing to gain from that arrangement.

You lack imagination Dt - The United States of America came into being by the uniting of states. ><>

 

[Desk trauma]

No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe (America) is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death (misery) diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
John Donne with additions by ><>

Argument ad poem?

 

[afishamongmany]

I would have people decide that it is far better to change one's circumstances by opposing evil than by running from it.

Yea sure - so how do we do that? By decree? What do we do while we wait for the message to get through? ><>

 

[PloverWing]

Thanks PW, yea your first sentence I think encapsulates the solution and the dilemma.
How about getting referendums going in the USA and states like Honduras, for them (failed states) to voluntarily become part of the USA??
Your educational suggestion is good in principle but long term. There is also the problem of who decides which "political and cultural ideas" are the ones that are going to make things better
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I thought about this some more later in the day yesterday, especially the question of "which political and cultural ideas". One of the problems in some of the troubled countries is their colonial past: there's a history of countries coming in from the outside, conquering them, and telling them what to do, and that (justifiably) leads to mistrust. As far as possible, I think solutions may have to come from countries that are culturally similar to the troubled countries. I'm thinking of how Costa Rican president Oscar Arias Sanchez negotiated a peace in Central America in the 1980s, where the US had failed. Costa Rica and other stable Latin American countries may need to be the leaders in guiding the troubled Latin countries. Similarly, once a few majority-Muslim nations figure out how to integrate Islam with stable democracy, they would be good leaders in guiding their majority-Muslim neighbors. Americans can provide some funding, and we can still send our scholars to teach in universities (because we do have really good political ideas to teach), but we have to resist our urge to be in charge of everything.

For that reason, I'm reluctant to try to incorporate Latin countries directly into the US. But a North-and-South-American counterpart to the EU could be really interesting.

And, yes, I think any solution has to be long-term. Decades, at the least, maybe longer. The work starts now, and our children and grandchildren may see the payoff.

 

[Desk trauma]

You lack imagination Dt - The United States of America came into being by the uniting of states. ><>

Please, bless me with the fruits of your rich imagination.

What does the US stand to gain from taking into the fold a country that has a 66% (and climbing) poverty rate, 30% unemployment and the worlds second highest rate of homicides?

 

[afishamongmany]

1. Cap all entitlement programs right where they are and cover all new illegal support with across the board reductions from those programs. That would soon eliminate all the open borders politicians.
2. Stop all aid to any dead-beat country that can't seem to find a way to take care of their own.
3. Investigate all online media, and require mandatory housing of at least one illegal for anyone who has shown support for open borders.

Mmm ok 1-eliminating o.b. politicians solves the problem?
2- there's aid and there's aid - so Let them rot?
3 - sponsorship is an idea worth developing. "Investigate""mandatory" mmmm ?
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[PloverWing]

section9+1, I think this idea needs some fleshing out. This in tandem with Desk trauma's employment controls and a system of sponsorship has possibilities. I think though maybe sponsorship first then entry?
A nationwide survey to see how many would be willing to take in and support an individual or a family would certainly be very interesting.
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A program of sponsorship is an interesting idea. As I recall, we did something like that at the end of the Vietnam War, when there were many migrants from Southeast Asia. My church sponsored a Laotian family: Helped them find housing, employment, English classes, helped the kids get enrolled at their local school, provided the family with household necessities, school supplies, and so on. Other churches similarly sponsored other families.

There should be churches today who would be willing to sponsor families in our new wave of migrants. At least, I'd hope so, given that we read the words of Jesus every Sunday.

 

[afishamongmany]

Argument ad poem?

Who's arguing? Not me. I'm interested in all ideas of substance put forward. I think about them and respond as seems appropriate. This is a 'let's think about this' thread . The poem speaks for it's self and is entirely apropos your comment. ><>

 

[Desk trauma]

Who's arguing? Not me. I'm interested in all ideas of substance put forward.

Then quoting poetry would seem to be out of step with that goal.

The poem speaks for it's self and is entirely apropos your comment. ><>

Sorry, no. Sinking into yet another quagmire of nation building will not benefit the US.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Sigh!!! AJ if you had also suggested setting up sites in Honduras and Guatemala to develop and manufacture these spiders, your post would have been just that little bit more interesting. ><>

I want to help America become great again by using American riveters and steam boiler makers so I can use American coal. I thought one of the goals of the President was to bring back 19th century jobs.

 

[Desk trauma]

I want to help America become great again by using American riveters and steam boiler makers so I can use American coal. I thought one of the goals of the President was to bring back 19th century jobs.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Nothing burns like a Spermaceti candle.

 

[Desk trauma]

Nothing burns like a Spermaceti candle.

Thus spake the infallible Jefferson.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Thus spake the infallible Jefferson.

Ah Jefferson, a President that has nothing against minorities.


Too soon?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If the OP's question has to be asked, in the face of the obvious solution, we are certainly doomed to lose our country to the invading hordes.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yea sure - so how do we do that? By decree? What do we do while we wait for the message to get through? ><>

Why do we have to do anything if people aren't willing to help themselves?

 

[Tanj]

Actually their solution offered was a very simple and complete one that would take care of the whole problem in short time.

Actually they posted immediately after me and agreed their solution didn't tackle the rest of world.

Here is what Desk trauma wrote

I confined my answer to the US mainly because I have no idea how to right the myriad of wrongs around the world while having what I consider a good idea of how to handle the illegal economic migrants in the US.

That was a bit easy Bob...did your goats get to the keyboard again?

 

[afishamongmany]

Please, bless me with the fruits of your rich imagination.

What does the US stand to gain from taking into the fold a country that has a 66% (and climbing) poverty rate, 30% unemployment and the worlds second highest rate of homicides?

Sure it would be a challenge. But isn't that part and parcel of the american pyche, rising to a challenge?
Just quickly googled Honduras, lots of natural resources, lots of potential. A population of nine million, who if governed intelligently, honestly and compassionately would be a great asset to any nation. To my mind it would be a project much more worthwhile trying for with much more potential gain (and less expensive) than colonising the moon or mars.
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[afishamongmany]

Then quoting poetry would seem to be out of step with that goal.


Sorry, no. Sinking into yet another quagmire of nation building will not benefit the US.

Dt, if I'm understanding you right, you think that Donne's poem isn't saying anything of substance. Well I'm surprised, I disagree, but hey it's ok

If by 'nation building' you're thinking of Iraq, sure I understand, once bitten twice shy. But the parallels are not the same and don't think that for those in charge of the Iraq project 'nation building' was ever the goal.
Anyway, you don't like the idea, that's ok.
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