People without borders – What would you do?

[TheBear]

So imagine you're the USA's president, or someone rich enough, or powerful enough to make things happen. What would you do? Not just to deal with the immediate, impending invasion of the USA but what to do about the world-wide mass migrations that have now become the norm.
A river of people: The migrant caravan in pictures

I'm not interested in your politics. What I'd like to hear about are possible solutions.
Ideas that go beyond the binary, Keep 'em out!/ Let 'em in!
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This is all over the place. Please narrow it down to either the US specifically, or worldwide generally.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Sure it would be a challenge. But isn't that part and parcel of the american pyche, rising to a challenge?
Just quickly googled Honduras, lots of natural resources, lots of potential. A population of nine million, who if governed intelligently, honestly and compassionately would be a great asset to any nation. To my mind it would be a project much more worthwhile trying for with much more potential gain (and less expensive) than colonising the moon or mars.
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I am against Nation Building simply because that is what I have been doing for twenty odd years and we have nothing substantial to show for it. But colonizing is another story, or even better, a puppet state like Manchukuo.

 

[afishamongmany]

Why do we have to do anything if people aren't willing to help themselves?

gtaw, No we don't have to do any thing, we can just watch 'em rot and wait our turn. But we should try to do something because they are fellow human beings. Don't you think one of the main driving forces in those people trying to get to the promised land is that desire to 'help themselves'?
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[afishamongmany]

This is all over the place. Please narrow it down to either the US specifically, or worldwide generally.

Hi TheBear - At the moment I don't see why the thread can handle different posts about the US specifically and worldwide generally. But if it gets too muddled I'll think about 'narrowing down'. ><>

 

[HantsUK]

If the OP's question has to be asked, in the face of the obvious solution, we are certainly doomed to lose our country to the invading hordes.

As someone living in one of the original 'donor countries', I thought that this has already happened? A few hundred years ago? The various original Native American tribes lost most of their land, and their descendent form a very small percentage of the current population.

 

[TheBear]

Hi TheBear - At the moment I don't see why the thread can handle different posts about the US specifically and worldwide generally. But if it gets too muddled I'll think about 'narrowing down'. ><>

Well, they are two, completely different topics.

For example - it would be extremely delusional to prescribe blanket, global policies on immigration .... unless you subscribe to a one world government with no borders or state sovereignty. If that's the case, then the former would be moot.

 

[Desk trauma]

Sure it would be a challenge. But isn't that part and parcel of the american pyche, rising to a challenge?

Acting against out national interest, while very common in our half baked foreign policy of the last few decades, is not definitively American.

Just quickly googled Honduras, lots of natural resources, lots of potential.

Well, good for them, no need for us in that case!

population of nine million, who if governed intelligently, honestly and compassionately would be a great asset to any nation.

Such as, perhaps, their own nation?

Are these people some how deficient in your eyes so as to require outsiders to remedy their ignorance?

To my mind it would be a project much more worthwhile trying for with much more potential gain (and less expensive) than colonising the moon or mars.
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The space program has had one of the largest return on investment, in terms of monetary value as well as inspiration, of any undertaking. Absorbing a nation that makes the worst pats of Detroit look like Manhattan by comparison will be a drain on us not a boost. Unless we are just going to go whole hog colonial and ship their resources home at below market value.

 

[Desk trauma]

Dt, if I'm understanding you right, you think that Donne's poem isn't saying anything of substance.

Not in this situation. If you want to make a point just make it, no need to obfuscate with others work.

by 'nation building' you're thinking of Iraq, sure I understand, once bitten twice shy. But the parallels are not the same and don't think that for those in charge of the Iraq project 'nation building' was ever the goal.
Anyway, you don't like the idea, that's ok.
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It takes very little to stir up "yankee go home!" sentiment in Central and South America with out long history of, ham fisted at best and anti-democratic as worst, intervention in the region. While it would very different from the Islamic violence we faced in our other recent over seas adventures guerrilla resistance is almost a tradition in that region and would become quite the problem in very short order.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ok Dt, thanks, that's a do-able (difficult but do-able) idea. It would take time for the effect to work through and in the medium term you will still have a mass of people pushing for the promised land. Also of course it does nothing to solve the root causes - bad government -> unemployment -> poverty -> human misery in the home countries.
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You don't know how to solve those problems ....and neither does anyone else. Nations like Guatemala are tiny...and they have millions of people.

Crops are failing due to global warming, and since they're mainly an agricultural nation...they have no jobs. 1 out of 4 kids are starving...and only 4 out of 10 adults are gainfully employed. They only recently got out of a 30 year civil war and they'll be heading right back into one.

That's just one nation....when you look at all the failing states, one thing is clear, there's no fixing them.

They're doomed.

 

[grasping the after wind]

gtaw, No we don't have to do any thing, we can just watch 'em rot and wait our turn. But we should try to do something because they are fellow human beings. Don't you think one of the main driving forces in those people trying to get to the promised land is that desire to 'help themselves'?
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In one sense they are truly trying to help themselves. Such as when a wedding crasher helps him/herself to the food and drink that were supplied at great expense by the parents and meant for the actual wedding guests that were invited to the reception.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You don't know how to solve those problems ....and neither does anyone else. Nations like Guatemala are tiny...and they have millions of people.

Crops are failing due to global warming, and since they're mainly an agricultural nation...they have no jobs. 1 out of 4 kids are starving...and only 4 out of 10 adults are gainfully employed. They only recently got out of a 30 year civil war and they'll be heading right back into one.

That's just one nation....when you look at all the failing states, one thing is clear, there's no fixing them.

They're doomed.

I agree they are doomed as a nation, but not as a people migrating to the U.S. They will be hired as cheap labor, shepherded into ghettos, and live in poverty for years. These are third world people who would need generations to assimilate properly.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It takes very little to stir up "yankee go home!" sentiment in Central and South America with out long history of, ham fisted at best and anti-democratic as worst, intervention in the region. While it would very different from the Islamic violence we faced in our other recent over seas adventures guerrilla resistance is almost a tradition in that region and would become quite the problem in very short order.

Isn't it ironic that the country most reviled by these people (their leadership anyway) is the one most desired to live in.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

As someone living in one of the original 'donor countries', I thought that this has already happened? A few hundred years ago? The various original Native American tribes lost most of their land, and their descendent form a very small percentage of the current population.

Good point. However many Christians believe that America is one of the lands promised to Israel (specifically the tribe of Manasseh). The land of Canaan could never fulfill or provide what was promised to the descendants of Jacob. America can and still does. The indigenous natives were likened to the ancient Canaanites, to be destroyed or driven out.

 

[afishamongmany]

Well, they are two, completely different topics.

For example - it would be extremely delusional to prescribe blanket, global policies on immigration .... unless you subscribe to a one world government with no borders or state sovereignty. If that's the case, then the former would be moot.

TB, with respect I disagree. The mass movements of destitute people is a world wide problem. There are some different specifics for the different areas of the world but even 'solutions' for those specifics may be adaptable for wider use.
No I don't subscribe to world government and I'm for sovereign states controlling their borders. There is already in place a proto, unofficial world government. But neither it nor any of the sovereign states seem to have any will or way to deal with this problem.
Remember, you as Mr President or an altruistic multi billionaire have to work with the world as it is but you want to change it, you want to make it better - Or do we just want to shrug our shoulders and watch 'the game'?
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[afishamongmany]

Such as, perhaps, their own nation?
Are these people some how deficient in your eyes so as to require outsiders to remedy their ignorance?

Unless we are just going to go whole hog colonial and ship their resources home at below market value.

Dt, 'the people' aren't deficient but those who govern seem to be. You think not that maybe 'outsiders' are also contributing to 'deficient' government?
What is this 'their ignorance' that needs a remedy ??
Shipping resources home at below market value is the present system and probably a big contributing factor to problem.
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[afishamongmany]

afishamongmany said: ↑
Dt, if I'm understanding you right, you think that Donne's poem isn't saying anything of substance.

Not in this situation. If you want to make a point just make it, no need to obfuscate with others work.
Sigh!! The point is, No man is an island. Therefore we cannot seal ourselves off from each others problems.
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[afishamongmany]

You don't know how to solve those problems ....and neither does anyone else. Nations like Guatemala are tiny...and they have millions of people.

Crops are failing due to global warming, and since they're mainly an agricultural nation...they have no jobs. 1 out of 4 kids are starving...and only 4 out of 10 adults are gainfully employed. They only recently got out of a 30 year civil war and they'll be heading right back into one.

That's just one nation....when you look at all the failing states, one thing is clear, there's no fixing them.

They're doomed.

Hi Ana - well thanks, that's cheered us all up. The ships going down! Get the deck chairs out! ><>

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Unless we are just going to go whole hog colonial and ship their resources home at below market value.

We buy their resources cheap. Who benefits? Their corrupt leaders, the crime organizations, and the churches. The people get the leftovers. The money they get from selling their resources can certainly raise their standard of living. However, it never gets to the people.

 

[Desk trauma]

We buy their resources cheap. Who benefits?

The colonial power who gets access to raw materials at below market rate.

heir corrupt leaders, the crime organizations, and the RCC. The people get the leftovers.

Whatever the window dressing colonialism was never about benefiting the people of the colonized nations.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The colonial power who gets access to raw materials at below market rate.

Whatever the window dressing colonialism was never about benefiting the people of the colonized nations.

What colonized countries are you referring to?

The price paid is the market rate.