People speak of comparing Mohammad and Jesus.

[Arthra]

So to continue this ...

The Islamic calendar was just in the process of formation and Arabs used a very primitive way of reckoning years.. It was called the "Time of Ignorance" -

(1) The reckoning of years was slowly developed well before the events they recorded and

(2) by the time Hadiths were actually recorded and began to be set down was much, much later.

There's a third element in re. Aisha.. She was no doubt the youngest wife of the Prophet and after the passing of Muhammad she had a turbulent career.. Rebelling against the fourth Caliph Ali. The division of Islam into two factions the Shiah and the Sunni.. The Shiah were behind the lineal; descendents of Ali and Fatima and the Sunni were behind the Caliphs. When the Hadith began to be collected the division was very obvious..

The issue of Aisha's age at the time she was married to Muhammad has been of interest since the earliest days of Islam, and references to her age by early historians are frequent.[who?]American historian Denise Spellberg states that "these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity."[17] Early Muslims regarded Aisha's youth as demonstrating her virginity and therefore her suitability as a bride of Muhammad. This issue of her virginity was of great importance to those who supported Aisha's position in the debate of the succession to Muhammad. These supporters considered that as Muhammad's only virgin wife, Aisha was divinely intended for him, and therefore the most credible regarding the debate.[24]

Aisha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(my bold print)

There was a political influence involved it was necessary for this faction that Aisha be as young and "virgin" as possible.

The Shiahs on their part had little use for her..their ideal of womanhood was Fatimeh the daughter of the Prophet ...wife of Ali and mother of Hasan and Husain the legitimate Imams and successors.

...........................................

So that's why there is so much variance in the age of the people as recorded... and that's why Aisha had to be very young!

Aisha was not "raped" as some Christians would like to believe and Muhammad was no pedophile either.

...................................

 

[simplegifts]

...
...........................................

So that's why there is so much variance in the age of the people as recorded... and that's why Aisha had to be very young!

Aisha was not "raped" as some Christians would like to believe and Muhammad was no pedophile either.

...................................

How is all this comparing Jesus to Moahammad, but really the thread is about comparing the Quran to Jesus.

You left out:
Aisha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
According to traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was married to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.[15][15][17][18][19][20][21] However, al-Ṭabarī records that she was ten.[17] The sources do not offer much more information about Aisha's childhood years.[22][23]

Actually Mohammad fits better into the sexual pervert catagory. Multiple wives, sex slaves, concubines, the perpetual virgins in paradise, lusting after adopted son's wife and adding Quran verse to cover it, etc.

 

[Arthra]

How is all this comparing Jesus to Moahammad, but really the thread is about comparing the Quran to Jesus.

You left out:
Aisha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
According to traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was married to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.[15][15][17][18][19][20][21] However, al-Ṭabarī records that she was ten.[17] The sources do not offer much more information about Aisha's childhood years.[22][23]

Actually Mohammad fits better into the sexual pervert catagory. Multiple wives, sex slaves, concubines, the perpetual virgins in paradise, lusting after adopted son's wife and adding Quran verse to cover it, etc.

Yeah the hate talk got started didn't it.. and you've kind of pushed it along.

The traditional sources are unreliable chronologically as noted in my posts above.

I've been posting several items in comparison .. teachings on the Resurrection, the parable of the workers in the vineyard and several other things...so don't blame me!

 

[football5680]

Yeah the hate talk got started didn't it.. and you've kind of pushed it along.

The traditional sources are unreliable chronologically as noted in my posts above.

I've been posting several items in comparison .. teachings on the Resurrection, the parable of the workers in the vineyard and several other things...so don't blame me!

If you reject the sources then you know nothing about the life of Muhammad. The most trusted and authentic sources state she was about 6, and the marriage was consummated at the age of 9. All Sunni Muslims accept this and this wasn't even controversial to the earliest Muslims so there was no need to distort this.

You are trying to draw similarities but if you reject the most trusted sources then I can simply say what you are saying is not true and cannot be trusted. If you deny the most trusted sources then you must reject every source. You would be left with the Quran which doesn't tell you anything about the life of Muhammad. Because the sources at time cause problems some Muslims reject the sources and only accept the Quran but in Muslim countries these people are heretics and can actually be killed for this view.

 

[Arthra]

I think I've abundantly shown in the posts listed


http://www.christianforums.com/t7762597-6/#post63838412

http://www.christianforums.com/t7762597-6/#post63840074

http://www.christianforums.com/t7762597-7/#post63842112

that the age of people at the time of Prophet Muhammad is often inaccurately recorded...

You can accept that or not...

 

[simplegifts]

Yeah the hate talk got started didn't it.. and you've kind of pushed it along.

The traditional sources are unreliable chronologically as noted in my posts above.

I've been posting several items in comparison .. teachings on the Resurrection, the parable of the workers in the vineyard and several other things...so don't blame me!

Truth is hate talk? You were the one that said Wikipedia can be trusted.

Now is this hate talk?

Memphis Imam Yasir Qadhi's Vicious Jew Hatred - YouTube
Memphis Imam Yasir Qadhi's Vicious Jew Hatred.

Here ia another truth for you - Jew hatred occurred in the Middle East way before the Jews came back to create the state of Israel. It came with Islam.

Did you know that all the Jew hating verses in the Quran were "revealed from after Mohammad left Mecca. He was angry because except for a few, the Jews did not accept Mohammad as a prophet.

videos on islamic hate speech - Bing Videos

I wonder what would happen if non-muslims called Muslims apes and pigs?

 

[Supreme]

Truth is hate talk? You were the one that said Wikipedia can be trusted.

Now is this hate talk?

Memphis Imam Yasir Qadhi's Vicious Jew Hatred - YouTube
Memphis Imam Yasir Qadhi's Vicious Jew Hatred.

Here ia another truth for you - Jew hatred occurred in the Middle East way before the Jews came back to create the state of Israel. It came with Islam.

Did you know that all the Jew hating verses in the Quran were "revealed from after Mohammad left Mecca. He was angry because except for a few, the Jews did not accept Mohammad as a prophet.

videos on islamic hate speech - Bing Videos

I wonder what would happen if non-muslims called Muslims apes and pigs?

What an idiot. I can't believe people are dumb enough to follow such hate filled preachers. Defending Hitler? Claiming the Jews want to 'destroy Islam'? The guy's a nutter, not qualified to teach a class for two year olds.

 

[Illuminaughty]

that's really neat, but we aren't under the OT but the NEW, so invalid argument

Why would your belief that people are no longer under the OT prove my point invalid? I said it's best not to blindly follow the things attributed to people in ancient religious text. I used Muhammads apparent marriage to a minor (attributed to him in the Sunni hadith) and the apparent killing of males and the keeping of the virgins for oneself attributed to the Israelites in the Bible as examples. If you agree that we shouldn't follow that I'm all with you.

 

[Illuminaughty]

Now is this hate talk?

Yes, that is a good example of hate speech. Other people make use of hate speech against Muslims. Those two facts aren't mutually contradictory.

 

[Arthra]

Hate breeds hate does it not?

I got a another comparison between Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad to share but before I do... I wanna see if anyone wants to hear it!

 

[mathetes123]

Can they really be compared? I don't believe so. There is really nothing Mohammad brings to compare him to Jesus.

The comparisons should and can be made between:

Paul and Mohammad

or

Jesus [God's incarnate, eternal Word] and the Quran

The only comparison that can be made is the difference between truth and falsehood.

Jesus taught that He is the way and the truth and the life and that noone comes to the father but through him.

 

[Fireinfolding]

The only comparison that can be made is the difference between truth and falsehood.

Jesus taught that He is the way and the truth and the life and that noone comes to the father but through him.

Amen the Father which sent Him bear witness of Him

Isaiah 55:4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

Being the faithful witness

 

[Crypto]

The only comparison that can be made is the difference between truth and falsehood.

Jesus taught that He is the way and the truth and the life and that noone comes to the father but through him.

We can compare Jesus and Muhammad, but only to emphasize the striking differences between them.
There's no similarity between Muhammad and Moses either.

 

[Crypto]

Yeah the hate talk got started didn't it.. and you've kind of pushed it along.

The traditional sources are unreliable chronologically as noted in my posts above.

I've been posting several items in comparison .. teachings on the Resurrection, the parable of the workers in the vineyard and several other things...so don't blame me!

Saying that Muhammad indulged in child molestation is not hate speech; it's a historical fact. All Islamic texts clearly state that Aisha was a child when Muhammad consummated the marriage.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Jesus taught that He is the way and the truth and the life and that noone comes to the father but through him.

Which is equally true of most (if not all) of the great religions and the Divine Messengers Who founded them!

Every Age has a new such Messenger, and They all make, in slightly varying wordings, this same "but by Me" statement! (quotes upon request).

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Arthra]

Saying that Muhammad indulged in child molestation is not hate speech; it's a historical fact. All Islamic texts clearly state that Aisha was a child when Muhammad consummated the marriage.

It's not an "historical fact" in my view because the ages of the people at that time were not recorded according to years as they are today.. See my earlier post which contains references:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7762597-7/#post63846484

Alleging molestation when there is no evidence is ergo in my view "hate speech" and promotes hatred and prejudice and even in today's world that can be a serious infraction..

 

[Crypto]

It's not an "historical fact" in my view because the ages of the people at that time were not recorded according to years as they are today.. See my earlier post which contains references:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7762597-7/#post63846484

Alleging molestation when there is no evidence is ergo in my view "hate speech" and promotes hatred and prejudice and even in today's world that can be a serious infraction..

You are probably the only Muslim who thinks like that. I can cite at least ten hadith saying that Aisha was 9 when the marriage was consummated. All the Imams that I've ever heard talking about the subject have no doubt about this age and its literal interpretation.

 

[Arthra]

You are probably the only Muslim who thinks like that. I can cite at least ten hadith saying that Aisha was 9 when the marriage was consummated. All the Imams that I've ever heard talking about the subject have no doubt about this age and its literal interpretation.

Crypto:

I'm a Baha'i. I've never claimed to be a Muslim... and you may have talked with a lot of Imams too...but just because people think something doesn't make it so.

Someone wrote on this forum...

"What the hell?! The Quran is most hateful book ever written."

or

"Muhammad was demon-possessed?"

Hate speech can be defined as

"[FONT=&quot]....an incitement to hatred primarily against a group of persons defined in terms of race, ethnicity, national origin, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and the like[/FONT]
Hate speech can be any form of expression regarded as offensive to racial, ethnic and religious groups and other discrete minorities or to women."

Hate Speech Law & Legal Definition

 

[Crypto]

Crypto:

I'm a Baha'i. I've never claimed to be a Muslim... and you may have talked with a lot of Imams too...but just because people think something doesn't make it so.

Someone wrote on this forum...

"What the hell?! The Quran is most hateful book ever written."

or

"Muhammad was demon-possessed?"

Hate speech can be defined as

"[FONT=&quot]....an incitement to hatred primarily against a group of persons defined in terms of race, ethnicity, national origin, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and the like[/FONT]
Hate speech can be any form of expression regarded as offensive to racial, ethnic and religious groups and other discrete minorities or to women."

Hate Speech Law & Legal Definition

It is not hate speech if it is true. Muhammad himself was convinced that he was demon-possessed, until his first wife convinced him otherwise. Regarding the Koran being hateful, check this:

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."


Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."




Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"






Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"




Do you want to fight against hate speech? Fight against Islam.

 

[Arthra]

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“ BUT AS FOR THOSE WHO STRIVE HARD IN OUR cause, we shall most certainly guide them to Our paths, and God is indeed with the doers of Good”


(Sura 29: verse 69)

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“And fight in God’s cause against those who have initially waged war against you, and do never commit aggression, for verily, God does not love aggressors”



(Sura 2: verse 190)*


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“It may well be that God will bring about affection between you and those whom you are now facing as enemies; and God is All-powerful, and God is Much-forgiving and Mercy-giving”


(Sura 60: verse 7)



Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement


You have challenged me to a battle. I accept your challenge. But I have a proposal to make. Why have a war involving murder and bloodshed of thousands of ignorant people? Why be a scourge to mankind? Let us have mercy on them, whether they are sincere and Allah-fearing Muslims, or ignorant, unenlightened and greedy mercenaries misguided and fooled by you. Let there be peace and tranquillity for all the creatures of Allah.

(Ali b. Abi Taalib, Letters from Nahjul Balaagh)


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