Penance

[Canadian75]

Hey,

Could someone explain the Orthodox view of Penance? Or, point me in the direction of some good articles. My priest said it is unlike Catholic penance, but we ran out of time to discuss it further. Also, what are some common (or standard) penances for sins such as adultery, murder, apostacy, etc. I understand that being denied the eucharist is a very common form....I guess some "Hail, Marys" and "Our Fathers" don't cut it.


Peace.

 

[moses916]

Well that is the difference between Catholic and Orthodox confession, one is geared to say a few prayers (Hail Mary's, Our Father) for the forgiveness of sins while the other is geared to cause a change of heart. (this is my opinion on confession between the two Churches from my experience in being in both Churches)

 

[MariaRegina]

It took me a while to understand the reason why there are penances attached to certain sins, but it is not like the legalistic pre-Vatican II Catholic idea of a set number of prayers that are prescribed for a set number of sins. Even the Catholic Church has changed this and tries to prescribe acts of charity that will help the penitent to grow in holiness.

The reason why an Orthodox Priest may prescribe a penance is for our salvation. A penance is often prescribed for serious sins like divorce or marital separation. Sure it is a bitter medicine, but the Priest wants to make sure that the penitants are repentant.

Divorce and separation are examples of sins which are penanced. These states are very stressful and people need time to heal and to forgive. Until they can forgive their spouse, they cannot receive Holy Communion.

I've known divorced women who haven't received Communion in years. They are just not ready and desperately need our prayers. My priest told me that many divorced women could be restored to Communion if they would ask, but they are the ones who are holding back, not the priest.

Penance does have a shock value. Penance is especially helpful when people do not realize how much a particular sin is controlling their lives. It is a call to repentance but most importantly, when a priest prescribes a penance and tells a penitent that he/she cannot receive Holy Communion for a short time, the priest is preventing that person from receiving Communion, and possibly suffering serious illness or death as a result of unworthily receiving the Precious Body and Blood of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Thus, in charity, the priest tells the penitent, "it will not be unto your salvation to partake of the Precious Body and Blood of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ at this time."

 

[Gnisios]

The reason why an Orthodox Priest may prescribe a penance is for our salvation. A penance is often prescribed for serious sins like divorce or marital separation. Sure it is a bitter medicine, but the Priest wants to make sure that the penitants are repentant.

Well said sister! For the Church is a hospital of souls and not a courtroom.

 

[Philip]

My priest said it is unlike Catholic penance, but we ran out of time to discuss it further. Also, what are some common (or standard) penances for sins such as adultery, murder, apostacy, etc.

By the grace of God I am not guilty of the sins you mention. For my 'lesser' sins, the 'penance' has often been confessing/speaking with the people I have wronged (this is often the most difficult penance), making amends, or a directed study.

It should be remembered that penance is not done to earn forgiveness from God. Rather, it is to restore unity within the Church, and help the sinner avoid the sin in the future.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Just wanted to clarify, that a Catholic priest is not bound to only give a penance of prayers...and that the role of penance from confession is to help create a new heart in the penitent...that their heart will be more like the heart of Jesus. Some of my hardest penenaces have been praying for people who have hurt me....

The penance received in Western confession is not for the forgiveness of sins (that happens at absolution).

I am sleepy, and totally don't mean this to sound like debating...just sort of a "Western voice"...I am sorry if it seems combative it is not meant to be

 

[MariaRegina]

Just wanted to clarify, that a Catholic priest is not bound to only give a penance of prayers...and that the role of penance from confession is to help create a new heart in the penitent...that their heart will be more like the heart of Jesus. Some of my hardest penenaces have been praying for people who have hurt me....

The penance received in Western confession is not for the forgiveness of sins (that happens at absolution).

I am sleepy, and totally don't mean this to sound like debating...just sort of a "Western voice"...I am sorry if it seems combative it is not meant to be

No, you are not intruding. Your thoughts are most welcome.

Notice how I mentioned the seemingly unfortunate stress on a more legalistic opinion of penances prescribed pre-Vatican II but certainly this was not held by all priests. Certainly the saintly Catholic Cure d'Ars (St. John Vianney) had the right understanding and practice of Holy Confession.

As a former pre- and post-Vatican II Catholic
I saw the changes and welcomed them. Confession became more soul-changing with the introduction of face-to-face confession and relevant penances such as asking forgiveness of those whom I had offended and pardoning those who offended me.

However, going to an Eastern Catholic parish and experiencing confession facing the Icon of Christ and His Mother with all the saints around me was a totally new experience. It was a constant reminder to me of what to expect at the Last Judgment when all our sins will be laid bare for all to see.

When I became Orthodox, the priest talked about the reason why Penance was prescribed (penance being the withholding of the Holy Sacraments for a period of time). He distinguished between Penance and epixima(spelling?) where a penitential practice was prescribed like reading a passage from the Bible, or making prostrations, or saying a special prayer every day, etc.

Penance was then seen, not as a punishment, but as a medicine prescribed for the cure of the soul.

Epixima is an obedience prescribed by the priest. It can be a bible reading, prostrations, giving alms, visiting the sick, etc.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[Canadian75]

relevant penances such as asking forgiveness of those whom I had offended and pardoning those who offended me.

Penance was then seen, not as a punishment, but as a medicine prescribed for the cure of the soul.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

p.s. HOPEFULLY, our esteemed TAW Hieromonk, Gnisios, will check my spelling.

I don't see the value of asking forgiveness of others if it could do more harm than good. For example if a wife cheats on her husband, I think it is best for her to keep it to herself or if someone slanders their best friend they should not volunteer that information to their friend. In these cases the harm brought about by exposing the sin is somewhat sinful in itself. Either way God will forgive the sin.


I still don't see how witholding communion is beneficial. The eucharist is a loving gift and a source of healing. How can witholding it be seen as not being a punishment?


Peace.

 

[MariaRegina]

I don't see the value of asking forgiveness of others if it could do more harm than good. For example if a wife cheats on her husband, I think it is best for her to keep it to herself or if someone slanders their best friend they should not volunteer that information to their friend.

In these cases the harm brought about by exposing the sin is somewhat sinful in itself. Either way God will forgive the sin.

If a wife cheats on her husband, then she has committed adultery. There are canons that specify the length time that a penance should be prescribed. The priest can use discretion in these cases depending on the repentance of the penitant. An adulterer could be penanced for several years, but that decision is between the penitent and the confessor.

The first consideration is the damage done and her repentance. Certainly any good priest will try to help minimize any future damage to a marriage.

There was a saintly priest, who as a seminarian was told to take as a wife, a harlot. He did so, and had to forgive her adultery many times and receive her back as a prodigal. However, she finally repented and remained faithful to him because she saw his faithful love. This is reminiscent of Hosea and his wife, the harlot, who represents us.

We all are sinners. Yet, Christ our God suffered and died for us even though He knew that we would continue to betray Him by our sins.

My priest has told me of several people whom he penanced, usually for divorcing their spouse. When the penance was lifted, they mentioned that they weren't worthy to receive Communion yet. None of us are truly worthy to receive, but with fear of God, faith and love, we dare to draw near and receive the Holy Chalice.

I still don't see how witholding communion is beneficial. The eucharist is a loving gift and a source of healing. How can witholding it be seen as not being a punishment?

Peace.

If a person is unrepentant, then the priest is merciful to withhold Holy Communion, because an unworthy reception can damn a person and/or cause physical or mental illness. Read Corinthians where St. Paul warns the faithful to properly discern the Body and Blood of Christ.

Holy Communion is only healing when a person is repentant.

Sometimes it takes time to heal and be repentant.

 

[Canadian75]

I guess that'll take some getting used to. Coming from Catholicism I'm used to forgiven sinners being encouraged to take communion rather than being forbidden from taking it.

Peace.

 

[MariaRegina]

I guess that'll take some getting used to. Coming from Catholicism I'm used to forgiven sinners being encouraged to take communion rather than being forbidden from taking it.

Peace.

The question is

Is a person adequately prepared to receive Holy Communion and in a worthy state?

The person placed under penance may be already forgiven by God because it is God who forgives. Even you as a catechumen may be in a better spiritual condition than I am, who are we to judge?

St. Mary of Egypt went into the desert and did not receive Holy Communion for at least 33 years (different texts give different times). And the Lord had forgiven her many years before that time. She repented and went into the desert to seek union with God. She battled against her passions by her fastings and prayers. When it was time for her to return to God, God heard her prayers and sent St. Zosimus to bring her Holy Communion. She died shortly after receiving Holy Communion, but her body wasn't found until a year later when St. Zosimus came back to commune her again.

In the past, I admit that I have received communion unworthily, and even now, I am not fully attentive at times. I also know that I cannot trust my own judgment, but need to rely on my priest who has better discernment than I do when it comes to spiritual matters.
That takes respect, humility, patience, and obedience. Virtues which are sorely lacking today.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

No, you are not intruding. Your thoughts are most welcome.

Notice how I mentioned the seemingly unfortunate stress on a more legalistic opinion of penances prescribed pre-Vatican II but certainly this was not held by all priests. Certainly the saintly Catholic Cure d'Ars (St. John Vianney) had the right understanding and practice of Holy Confession.

As a former pre- and post-Vatican II Catholic
I saw the changes and welcomed them. Confession became more soul-changing with the introduction of face-to-face confession and relevant penances such as asking forgiveness of those whom I had offended and pardoning those who offended me.

However, going to an Eastern Catholic parish and experiencing confession facing the Icon of Christ and His Mother with all the saints around me was a totally new experience. It was a constant reminder to me of what to expect at the Last Judgment when all our sins will be laid bare for all to see.

When I became Orthodox, the priest talked about the reason why Penance was prescribed (penance being the withholding of the Holy Sacraments for a period of time). He distinguished between Penance and epistemia(spelling?) where a penitential practice was prescribed like reading a passage from the Bible, or making prostrations, or saying a special prayer every day, etc.

Penance was then seen, not as a punishment, but as a medicine prescribed for the cure of the soul.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

p.s. HOPEFULLY, our esteemed TAW Hieromonk, Gnisios, will check my spelling.

Ah, okay! Thank you, I see the distinction more clearly now! I was going to go to Divine Liturgy this weekend, but I forgot I told a lady who is legally blind that I'd drive her to Mass... I suppose the next time we have no Sunday school...

 

[Canadian75]

Well, I have to admit that I am concerned that I may have sins that require penance, even though I am not an Orthodox Christian. Of course I'm not sharing my sins with you all, and I don't know if penance is attached to it. I'll have to discuss it with my priest, but I guess it may be a while before I can even be considered to enter the church (not that I'm ready now anyway). Now that I am aware that there is penance in the form of witholding communion I have to find out what sins of mine apply (with regards to severity and when I commited them).

I still disagree with the Orthodox idea of penance, but I'll still have to comply if it applies to me. I don't believe anyone can truly take communion worthily yet it is a source of healing and an expression of God's love through the sacrifice of Jesus. That is why I still see penance as a punishment in witholding the source of healing and physical manifistation of God's Love. C'est la vie.

Peace.

 

[MariaRegina]

Well, I have to admit that I am concerned that I may have sins that require penance, even though I am not an Orthodox Christian. Of course I'm not sharing my sins with you all, and I don't know if penance is attached to it. I'll have to discuss it with my priest, but I guess it may be a while before I can even be considered to enter the church (not that I'm ready now anyway). Now that I am aware that there is penance in the form of witholding communion I have to find out what sins of mine apply (with regards to severity and when I commited them).

I still disagree with the Orthodox idea of penance, but I'll still have to comply if it applies to me. I don't believe anyone can truly take communion worthily yet it is a source of healing and an expression of God's love through the sacrifice of Jesus. That is why I still see penance as a punishment in witholding the source of healing and physical manifistation of God's Love. C'est la vie.

Peace.

Don't worry. Just confide in your priest.

During your catechumenate, you will have ample time to repent. It is the sins committed after your baptism/chrismation that will incur penances. At least that is what my priest told me. Sometimes the time of the catechumenate will be extended to give people extra time to change their life and to learn to avoid sins and sinful occasions.

While you are preparing for illumination, be open with your priest so that he can help you overcome sinful habits. In this way, once you are purified, illuminated and sanctified through Holy Baptism/Holy Chrismation you can keep spotless your white garments.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Just a clarification:

After repenting of her sins before the Cross of Christ, St. Mary of Egypt recieved communion. Then she left for the desert. Before her death she communed again.

Running on I passed the gates and still weeping went on my journey. Those I met I asked the way, and after walking for the rest of that day (I think it was nine o'clock when I saw the Cross) I at length reached at sunset the Church of St. John the Baptist which stood on the banks of the Jordan. After praying in the temple, I went down to the Jordan and rinsed my face and hands in its holy waters. I partook of the holy and life-giving Mysteries in the Church of the Forerunner and ate half of one of my loaves. Then, after drinking some water from Jordan, I lay down and passed the night on the ground. In the morning I found a small boat and crossed to the opposite bank. I again prayed to Our Lady to lead me whither she wished. Then I found myself in this desert and since then up to this very day I am estranged from all, keeping away from people and running away from everyone. And I live here clinging to my God Who saves all who turn to Him from faintheartedness and storms."

M.

 

[MariaRegina]

Just a clarification:

After repenting of her sins before the Cross of Christ, St. Mary of Egypt recieved communion. Then she left for the desert. Before her death she communed again.

Running on I passed the gates and still weeping went on my journey. Those I met I asked the way, and after walking for the rest of that day (I think it was nine o'clock when I saw the Cross) I at length reached at sunset the Church of St. John the Baptist which stood on the banks of the Jordan. After praying in the temple, I went down to the Jordan and rinsed my face and hands in its holy waters. I partook of the holy and life-giving Mysteries in the Church of the Forerunner and ate half of one of my loaves. Then, after drinking some water from Jordan, I lay down and passed the night on the ground. In the morning I found a small boat and crossed to the opposite bank. I again prayed to Our Lady to lead me whither she wished. Then I found myself in this desert and since then up to this very day I am estranged from all, keeping away from people and running away from everyone. And I live here clinging to my God Who saves all who turn to Him from faintheartedness and storms."

M.

Thanks, Monica.

I think what baffles many Catholics today is that they believe that a saint must receive Holy Communion daily in order to reach union with God (what we call theosis).

Yet, St. Mary of Egypt did not partake of Holy Communion for about 33 years during her sojourn in the wilderness. In fact, her first communion in about 33 years was her last as she died shortly after St. Zosimus gave her Holy Communion. Isn't that true?

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Yes. One of our priests pointed out to our Adult class that it is not the number of Eucharistic meals you partake in that necessarily aids in holiness but rather the effort that you join with the grace of communion to apprehend the holiness available to all of us. He used St. Mary as an example. Though she communed only twice in her life, she was able to apprehend more fully the grace of her first communion which bore fruit in her time of ascesis in the desert, sustaining her until her second communion 30+ years later. Many of our ascetics communed less frequently than we are able to, yet their lives abounded in fruit to the point of putting us to shame.

M.

 

[Canadian75]

I think what baffles many Catholics today is that they believe that a saint must receive Holy Communion daily in order to reach union with God (what we call theosis).

Interesting...I'd never heard that before. I wonder what the reasoning is behind that belief?

Peace.

 

[MariaRegina]

Great post, Monica

 

[Xpycoctomos]

When I became Orthodox, the priest talked about the reason why Penance was prescribed (penance being the withholding of the Holy Sacraments for a period of time). He distinguished between Penance and epistemia(spelling?) where a penitential practice was prescribed like reading a passage from the Bible, or making prostrations, or saying a special prayer every day, etc.

Penance was then seen, not as a punishment, but as a medicine prescribed for the cure of the soul.

I thnk this is an important distinction between how we use the word "penance" and how the West uses the word.

Aria, in this part:

He distinguished between Penance and epistemia(spelling?) where a penitential practice was prescribed like reading a passage from the Bible, or making prostrations, or saying a special prayer every day, etc.

is the definition (the part in bold) you gave reffering to Penance or epistemia? I am guessing the latter. If so, this is how my priest distinguishes between a Penance and what he has been taught to call an "obediance" so it's neat to learn the technical word for it, if I am indeed understanding you correctly.

So it seems that a Post-Catholic "penance" is more comparable to an epistemia/obediance. I think this is an important point highlight so we know we can be sure we are talking about the same thing (in East/West discussions).

John