Paul's : Doctrine #1

[keepitsimple144]

You’re not actually considering the implications of these verses of scripture. I feel like you’re overlooking them and not actually paying attention to what they’re teaching.

Break it down like I'm a two year old. What does Romans 6:23 actually mean?

Our theology shouldn’t be “whatever makes you sleep at night” it should be what does the Bible actually teach.

The irony is that those who can't stomach assurance of salvation in Christ wouldn't know the first thing about sound doctrine.

If you have to overlook certain passages in order to hold on to your theology then it’s not biblical.

Indeed. He became the source of eternal salvation...Heb 5:9 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36

Sound doctrine isn’t whatever we want it to be it’s what is actually taught in the scriptures and if there are passages that contradict your theology then it’s not biblical.

What Scripture actually teaches is that those who reject Christ won't see the light of day.
Whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[BNR32FAN]

Break it down like I'm a two year old. What does Romans 6:23 actually mean?

“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

It means that because of our sin we were destined to condemnation in the lake of fire but because Jesus died on the cross for our sins He saved us from that terrible fate and receiving the gift of eternal life isn’t based on our own efforts but instead it’s based on what He did for us on the cross. What it doesn’t tell us is the requirements for receiving salvation. In order to receive salvation we have to believe in the gospel AND ABIDE IN CHRIST. Nobody is saved just because they believed at one time then stopped believing. Reformed believers try to use 2 John 2:19 to support the idea that if someone falls away they were never actually a true believer but that doesn’t line up with what Paul wrote to Timothy in 2 Timothy 2:12 because both Paul and Timothy were true believers. So if Paul says that both he and Timothy are in fact capable of denying Christ and as a result Christ would deny them then obviously the way reformers are interpreting 2 John 2:19 cannot be correct. The same thing goes with James 5:19-20 “if he turns him BACK to the truth he will save his soul from death. In John 15:1-7 Jesus tells His 11 faithful apostles to ABIDE (remain) in Him and in verse 6 He tells them “anyone who does not abide in Me is cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned”. He said this to them in the upper room after the Last Supper, after Judas had left to betray Him on the night He was arrested. So the only people who were present were the faithful 11 apostles who were true believers and had been following Him for 3 years. Your interpretation of 2 John 2:19 is incorrect because John was referring to a specific group of people who were antichrists. That statement does not apply to everyone who falls away because Jesus said that even the 11 faithful apostles could fall away and Paul said that even himself and Timothy could fall away.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The irony is that those who can't stomach assurance of salvation in Christ wouldn't know the first thing about sound doctrine.

No this is just a false accusation. I’m quoting scripture to prove my point.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Indeed. He became the source of eternal salvation...Heb 5:9 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36

Why didn’t you quote the whole verse from Hebrews 5:9? Why did you omit the first half of it?

“And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5‬:‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Is someone obeying Him if they fall away? Are they obeying Him if they deny Him? You just cherry picked the half of the only verse that uses the term “eternal salvation” and tried to use it to support the idea that anyone who has received salvation can’t lose it but that’s not what Hebrews 5:9 says. It doesn’t say anyone who ever believed has eternal salvation it says that He is the source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him. There’s a stipulation there. And John 3:36 doesn’t support eternal security either because again there’s a stipulation there, they have to believe. “He who believes” present tense, not past tense. We have to abide in Christ in order to receive eternal life. That means stay, remain, continue. It doesn’t mean that someone can believe for a little while and they’re saved even if they stop believing.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What Scripture actually teaches is that those who reject Christ won't see the light of day.
Whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, 2 Cor 4:3-4

Then how do you explain 2 Timothy 2:12?

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

How are you applying this statement made by Paul to what you’ve said above? Was Paul a believer? Did he just say to Timothy that he is capable of denying Christ and Christ would deny him?

I need to know what your thoughts are on free will? Do we have it? Is it limited after we come to Christ?

 

[fhansen]

The Gospel has never been about God gradually working towards the New Covenant where He could finally reach people with the proper method.

Well, I don't know if "method' is the right word but in any case, yes, I believe that's exactly what God was doing. Jesus came in the "fullness of time", apparently because any earlier time would've been too soon for humanity, just as we as individuals aren't necessarily ready to accept and embrace the gospel until we're ready. Why didn't Jesus simply atone right after Adam's sin? Or why didn't God simply prevent Adam from sinning to begin with? The reason is that God gave man freedom so that he might come to freely choose the good for himself, and the experience of life in a relatively godless world provides knowledge which can help us make that choice. But that takes time. Wisdom isn't gained overnight for created beings.

And there's a corporate aspect to the experience and knowledge and wisdom gained by humanity. Sin, driven by human self-righteousness/selfishness/pride, had caused great amounts of harm and victimization and suffering down through the centuries. The law, alone, could not overcome this even in the Chosen People, a truth that they demonstrated repeatedly over time. Paul's own "righteousness" as a Pharisee was insufficient. In Rom 7 he laments this human condition, of wanting but not being able to obtain or even to continuously value the righteousness that he knew he should have. Experience and failures and disappointments tell us that there's something missing here; there must be more, there should be an answer. Learning had progressed as well. By the time Jesus came Greek philosophers had arrived at the necessity of a creator-God by reason alone, giving even less excuse for unbelief.

 

[RandyPNW]

Well, I don't know if "method' is the right word but in any case, yes, I believe that's exactly what God was doing. Jesus came in the "fullness of time", apparently because any earlier time would've been too soon for humanity, just as we as individuals aren't necessarily ready to accept and embrace the gospel until we're ready. Why didn't Jesus simply atone right after Adam's sin? Or why didn't God simply prevent Adam from sinning to begin with? The reason is that God gave man freedom so that he might come to freely choose the good for himself, and the experience of life in a relatively godless world provides knowledge which can help us make that choice. But that takes time. Wisdom isn't gained overnight for created beings.

You have a point. Freedom is what determines the time element in the process. But when we talk about God trying plan A, it don't work, then plan B, then we're no longer talking good sense. God didn't invent an inferior plan--it was all one plan. God didn't change in the process in how He approached Man--it was always via His word. God is, without question, consistent in all that He does. He doesn't change.

The Law was not a flawed model--it was exactly what God intended in the run up to the atonement of Christ. It fit the need of the moment, and worked as such. Israel's failures did not mean God's failures.

Rom 3.3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar.

Rom 9.6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

It is a legitimate question to ask why God waited so long before providing His final atonement. Why even have a preliminary atonement?

I can't say why myself--I just don't claim that God's preliminary system, ie the Law, was flawed or an errant step on the way to redemption. I would rather suggest something like a nation had to be created 1st in order for Messiah to approach the whole society of men with the choice for or against redemption.

And there's a corporate aspect to the experience and knowledge and wisdom gained by humanity. Sin, driven by human self-righteousness/selfishness/pride, had caused great amounts of harm and victimization and suffering down through the centuries. The law, alone, could not overcome this even in the Chosen People, a truth that they demonstrated repeatedly over time.

Neither the Law nor the Gospel was designed to immediately bring an end to injustice in the world. Rather, they reached out to people who were willing at the time, regardless of the fact some would reject them and regardless of whether the entire society rejected them at some point in their history.

I could hold a glass of cold water out to you and to a group, and the offering would prove its worth when you accept it and when the society accepts it. It may not solve the problem of thirst for all time but that does not thereby make the gift worthless or a failure.

Not even if in the future you reject this gift does it mean the offering was a failure because at one time you did accept it. And even if the society as a whole rejects the glass of water that doesn't mean the offering was fraudulent, a failure, or worthless--some did accept it, and at one time even the whole group benefited from it. The fact it was not a permanent fix for thirst does not invalidate the gift.

That's the way it was with the Law, and that's the way it is with the Gospel. Neither was has been a failure, and the fact the Law fell short of a permanent fix did not mean it lacked validity.

Paul's own "righteousness" as a Pharisee was insufficient.

You have to explain *why* Paul's righteousness as a Pharisee was insufficient. Was it because the original role of Pharisee was corrupt, or was it because the Pharisees at some point lost their way?

If a lawyer is corrupt should we say that the man failed because he was a lawyer? No. Neither should we say Paul failed righteousness simply because he held a religious office while under the Law. The Law was a perfectly acceptable system, as Jesus himself said. Jesus even said the Jews of his time should follow their teaching, when it corresponded with the Law.

It is not being under the Law that makes a man unrighteous. The Law was God's perfect standard for Israel at the time. Rather, the Law simply showed that Man was already a sinner even before he came under the Law. The Law was designed to remedy the separation between God and sinner in a temporary way, until final redemption had been won.

Jews could not obtain eternal Salvation while under the Law not because they were unrighteous but rather because their record of righteousness had to be dealt with by the grace of Christ's atonement. Their flaws, keeping them from the Tree of Life, had to be erased. And that could not come by human works, but only by Christ's works. A perfect man and a divine man was necessary to forgive sinful Man his sin.

 

[keepitsimple144]

“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
It means that because of our sin we were destined to condemnation in the lake of fire but because Jesus died on the cross for our sins He saved us from that terrible fate and receiving the gift of eternal life isn’t based on our own efforts but instead it’s based on what He did for us on the cross. What it doesn’t tell us is the requirements for receiving salvation. In order to receive salvation we have to believe in the gospel AND ABIDE IN CHRIST.

What part of the righteous live by faith are you having a problem with?

So the only people who were present were the faithful 11 apostles who were true believers and had been following Him for 3 years.
Your interpretation of 2 John 2:19 is incorrect because John was referring to a specific group of people who were antichrists.

I didn't give you any interpretation of 2 John 2:19
but for the record, I happen to be in agreement with 2 John 2:2
Because of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever;

And this is the record: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5:11

No this is just a false accusation. I’m quoting scripture to prove my point.

You don't have to quote scripture to prove that you departed from the faith, I'll take your word for it.
Let your Yes be simply Yes, and your No be simply No; anything more than that comes from the evil one.

You just cherry picked the half of the only verse that uses the term “eternal salvation” and tried to use it to support the idea that anyone who has received salvation can’t lose it but that’s not what Hebrews 5:9 says. It doesn’t say anyone who ever believed has eternal salvation it says that He is the source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him. There’s a stipulation there. And John 3:36 doesn’t support eternal security either because again there’s a stipulation there, they have to believe. “He who believes” present tense, not past tense. We have to abide in Christ in order to receive eternal life.

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves.
Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Cor 13:5

I need to know what your thoughts are on free will? Do we have it? Is it limited after we come to Christ?

For if they had been of us, they would have remained with us;
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 1 John 2:19-20

The stipulation is that "a man has got to know his limitations."

Why should any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead? Acts 26:6-8 John 5:24

​

 

[BNR32FAN]

I didn't give you any interpretation of 2 John 2:19
but for the record, I happen to be in agreement with 2 John 2:2
Because of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever;

My apologies I meant to type 1 John 2:19.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What part of the righteous live by faith are you having a problem with?

I didn't give you any interpretation of 2 John 2:19
but for the record, I happen to be in agreement with 2 John 2:2
Because of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever;

And this is the record: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5:11

You don't have to quote scripture to prove that you departed from the faith, I'll take your word for it.
Let your Yes be simply Yes, and your No be simply No; anything more than that comes from the evil one.

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves.
Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Cor 13:5

For if they had been of us, they would have remained with us;
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 1 John 2:19-20

The stipulation is that "a man has got to know his limitations."

Why should any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead? Acts 26:6-8 John 5:24

​

Ok you say I’ve departed from the faith when you’re the one who’s running away from the verses I’m posting. You haven’t given any explanation for 2 Timothy 2:12 or James 5:19-20, or Galatians 5:4, or John 15. You run away from these verses because you can’t explain them. It’s not my fault that you’re losing the argument here. I’ve explained every verse you’ve asked me to and I’ll continue to do so as much as you want because my theology lines up with ALL SCRIPTURE, not just bits and pieces of it. Furthermore my theology lines up with the early church writings from the first two centuries whereas your’s on the other hand wasn’t invented until the 16th century. And on top of that my theology is actually supported by the churches that were established by the apostles, your’s has been refuted by every single church established by the apostle. And as expected you did quote 1 John 2:19 out of context just like I said you would even after I gave an explanation of why it can’t be interpreted that way so now that you have misinterpreted that passage how is it that Paul said that he and Timothy could deny Christ and Christ would deny them? Was Paul not a true believer when he wrote the epistle to Timothy? Are you going to ignore the contradictory dilemma or will you just ignore it again and pretend that 2 Timothy 2:12 doesn’t exist?

 

[keepitsimple144]

Ok you say I’ve departed from the faith when you’re the one who’s running away from the verses I’m posting. You haven’t given any explanation for 2 Timothy 2:12 or James 5:19-20, or Galatians 5:4, or John 15. You run away from these verses because you can’t explain them. It’s not my fault that you’re losing the argument here. I’ve explained every verse you’ve asked me to and I’ll continue to do so as much as you want because my theology lines up with ALL SCRIPTURE, not just bits and pieces of it.

As previously stated, in 2 Tim 2:12 you have two different scenarios. The first refers to ministers of righteousness whereas the other refers to ministers of apostasy, unrighteousness.
James 5:19-20 is giving the ministers of apostasy a heads up since they're lost as the day is long.
Gal 5:4 is referring to religious zealots who became estranged from Christ seeking a justification of their own and forgot that the righteousness of God is based on faith in Christ, a new and living way. Hebrews 10:19-21

John 15:26-27 When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about Me. And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

Furthermore my theology lines up with the early church writings from the first two centuries whereas your’s on the other hand wasn’t invented until the 16th century. And on top of that my theology is actually supported by the churches that were established by the apostles, your’s has been refuted by every single church established by the apostle.

You might be overlooking a verse or two that points out that salvation in Christ was not restricted to 16th century believers.
Acts 3:24-26 Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days...He said to Abraham, ‘Through your seed all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ When God raised up His Servant Jesus, He sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

And as expected you did quote 1 John 2:19 out of context just like I said you would even after I gave an explanation of why it can’t be interpreted that way so now that you have misinterpreted that passage how is it that Paul said that he and Timothy could deny Christ and Christ would deny them? Was Paul not a true believer when he wrote the epistle to Timothy? Are you going to ignore the contradictory dilemma or will you just ignore it again and pretend that 2 Timothy 2:12 doesn’t exist?

The contradictions are all in your mind. Not forsaking the assembling with the body of believers as is the habit of the ministers of apostasy.

My apologies I meant to type 1 John 2:19.

Tell it to the Priest.

But when Christ came as High Priest of the good things that are now already here, ...He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having secured eternal redemption for us. Heb 9:11-12 He became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him. Heb 5:9

 

[BNR32FAN]

As previously stated, in 2 Tim 2:12 you have two different scenarios. The first refers to ministers of righteousness whereas the other refers to ministers of apostasy, unrighteousness.

You’re using an interesting choice of words here “ministers of righteousness” and “ministers of apostasy”. There are two different scenarios but only one audience. The two different scenarios are both associated with Paul and Timothy. Why can’t you just say that both Paul and Timothy were capable of losing their salvation?

James 5:19-20 is giving the ministers of apostasy a heads up since they're lost as the day is long.

Actually the message is to “the brethren” and it’s dealing with someone who strays from their faith resulting in being in danger of the death of their soul. Again it’s about people being capable of losing their salvation.

Gal 5:4 is referring to religious zealots who became estranged from Christ seeking a justification of their own and forgot that the righteousness of God is based on faith in Christ, a new and living way. Hebrews 10:19-21

Yes I agree but isn’t it just much easier to say that they lost their salvation. It seems like your avoiding using this particular wording.

John 15:26-27 When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about Me. And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

Yeah I asked about verses 1-7. I’m not sure what how 26-27 relates to verses 1-7.

 

[keepitsimple144]

You’re using an interesting choice of words here “ministers of righteousness” and “ministers of apostasy”. There are two different scenarios but only one audience.

The first scenario are the partakers of the new covenant in Christ, Who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, 2 Cor 3:6
And the other group has gone from bad to worse. 2 Tim 3:13

Actually the message is to “the brethren” and it’s dealing with someone who strays from their faith resulting in being in danger of the death of their soul. Again it’s about people being capable of losing their salvation.

They perish because they're devoid of the truth. These ministers of apostasy cause divisions, not having the Spirit. Jude 1

Yes I agree but isn’t it just much easier to say that they lost their salvation. It seems like your avoiding using this particular wording.

And will utterly perish in their own corruption.

Yeah I asked about verses 1-7. I’m not sure what how 26-27 relates to verses 1-7.

You typed John 15 and didn't bother to ask about any verses.
John 15:7 If you abide in Me and my words abide in you, (John 6:63) ask and you will receive. (Luke 11:13)

I will ask the Father to send you the Advocate;  the Holy Spirit; to be with you forever—John 14:16
To all who have known the truth; which abides in us and will be with us forever:
Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ,
the Son of the Father, in truth and love. 2 John 1

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. James 1:5-8

 

[BNR32FAN]

The first scenario are the partakers of the new covenant in Christ, Who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, 2 Cor 3:6
And the other group has gone from bad to worse. 2 Tim 3:13

Both of the epistles to Timothy are personal letters from Paul to Timothy. He is NOT addressing any congregation nor is he referring to anyone other than himself and Timothy in that passage. “If WE deny Him, He will deny US”. Your trying to make it sound as if it were in reference to different people when in fact it is specifically in reference to Paul and Timothy.

 

[BNR32FAN]

They perish because they're devoid of the truth. These ministers of apostasy cause divisions, not having the Spirit. Jude 1

You need to read it again because James said “if any among you STRAYS from the truth and one turns him BACK”. These people had the truth and turning them BACK to it saves their soul from death.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

You keep trying to twist these passages into something they’re not actually saying because you’re trying to filter them thru your doctrine of eternal security and it doesn’t work.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You typed John 15 and didn't bother to ask about any verses.

I specifically mentioned John 15:1-7 in the previous post.

In John 15:1-7 Jesus tells His 11 faithful apostles to ABIDE (remain) in Him and in verse 6 He tells them “anyone who does not abide in Me is cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned”. He said this to them in the upper room after the Last Supper, after Judas had left to betray Him on the night He was arrested. So the only people who were present were the faithful 11 apostles who were true believers and had been following Him for 3 years.

 

[fhansen]

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:2

Yes, because, by walking in the Spirit, I overcome the sin that leads to death. That's the only way sin is overcome, with God. Jesus came so that I might be with Him.

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people." Jer 31:33

"Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

 

[BNR32FAN]

I will ask the Father to send you the Advocate;  the Holy Spirit; to be with you forever—John 14:16
To all who have known the truth; which abides in us and will be with us forever:

I agree, once we receive the Holy Spirit we are sealed with Him, but Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 4:17-30 that we can grieve the Holy Spirit and continues on into Ephesians 5:1-6 to tell us that even people who are sealed with the Holy Spirit can once again become “sons of disobedience” and lose their inheritance in heaven.

“So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭17‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

According to this passage we can still grieve the Holy Spirit. Now look what he says in the beginning of the next chapter. Notice that he begins with the word “Therefore” which indicates that he is expanding on what he just said at the end of chapter 4.

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Right here Paul tells these Ephesians who have been “sealed with the Holy Spirit” that immorality must not be named among them otherwise they will have no inheritance in the kingdom of God and that for this reason the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Furthermore as I already pointed out the Galatians had been severed from Christ and had fallen from grace according to Galatians 5:4. You can’t be severed from Christ if you’ve never been joined to Him and you can’t fall from grace if it has never been bestowed upon you. And I also pointed out that Paul specifically said that these fallen Galatians had received the Holy Spirit according to Galatians 3:1-5.

“You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So again this is another indication that receiving the Holy Spirit doesn’t guarantee salvation. The only thing that guarantees salvation is remaining in Christ. So yes once we receive the Holy Spirit He will remain with us even if we apostatize and He will always be urging us to repent but if we continue to ignore Him we will not receive salvation if we don’t repent before we die.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. James 1:5-8

There’s nothing in this passage about eternal security. Nothing saying that if we deny Christ we will still be saved. This passage says we have to ask in order to receive, people who deny Christ aren’t asking for anything.

 

[keepitsimple144]

I specifically mentioned John 15:1-7 in the previous post.

That was after the fact. Post-51

Your trying to make it sound as if it were in reference to different people when in fact it is specifically in reference to Paul and Timothy.

Keep denying Him as you've been doing then let us know how it works out for you.
These ministers of apostasy resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 2 Tim 3:8

There’s nothing in this passage about eternal security. Nothing saying that if we deny Christ we will still be saved. This passage says we have to ask in order to receive, people who deny Christ aren’t asking for anything.

Hence they are known as the ministers of apostasy.
You do not have because you do not ask.
Even when you do ask you do not receive anything. James 4:2
For he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind...unstable in all his ways; James 1:6-8

But you, brethren, make your requests through the Holy Spirit eagerly awaiting for the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ that gives you eternal life. Jude 1:21

I agree, once we receive the Holy Spirit we are sealed with Him, but Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 4:17-30 that we can grieve the Holy Spirit...Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭17‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
Furthermore as I already pointed out the Galatians had been severed from Christ and had fallen from grace according to Galatians 5:4.

For we not relying on the Law but through the Holy Spirit, by faith, eagerly await the completion of our salvation; Gal 5:5

So again this is another indication that receiving the Holy Spirit doesn’t guarantee salvation.

The Spirit himself intercedes for us in accordance with the will of God.
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose...
that He might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. Rom 8:26-32

The only thing that guarantees salvation is remaining in Christ.

Giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation in whom we have redemption. Col 1:12-15

You keep trying to twist these passages into something they’re not actually saying because you’re trying to filter them thru your doctrine of eternal security and it doesn’t work.

For this purpose the Son of God appeared to destroy the work of apostates. (1 John 3:8)
You have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4
He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself...God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5:10-12