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Paul the Apostle a false prophet?

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by Zanting, May 1, 2012.

  1. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Hopeful that your working knowledge of the canon is good enough to correctly evaluate non-canonical writings,
    so as not to be deceived.

    Those writings are not canonical for a reason.

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    And even many Jews who profess faith in Christ reject the majority of Christ's NT revelation given personally to the apostles, because they want Christ on their own terms, rather than on his terms given in his NT revelation.

    I don't think James says that works save.

    I think he uses "justification" differently than Paul uses it.

    In Paul, "justification" means righteousness, by forgiveness of sin through faith by grace.

    In James, "justification" means verified, as one's claim to be a good cook is justified by their many cooking awards.

    They are really saying the same thing: the faith alone which "justifies" (saves) is justified (verified, shown to be true) by obedience (works).

    Agreed!

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  3. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Beautifully stated! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
  4. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    And they've been grinding that axe for millennia, in spite of Jesus' NT revelation personally given to the apsotles, including Paul.

    Some things never change.

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
  5. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    That's sad, because Paul received his revelation from Jesus Christ as did the other apostles.

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
  6. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    We have quotes from Jesus regarding Paul, just as we have quotes from Jesus regarding the rest of the apostles.

    "In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, 'Ananias!'
    'Yes, Lord,' he answered.

    The Lord told him, 'Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for
    he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.'

    'Lord,' Ananias answered, 'I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.'

    But the Lord said to Ananias, 'Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel.I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.'

    Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, 'Brother Saul, the Lord--Jesus who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.' Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, and after taking some food, he regained his strength." (Ac 9:10-19)

    We have more than a "quote" from God in Jesus regarding Paul.
    We have a whole conversion event from God in Jesus,
    a filling with the Holy Spirit from God in Jesus,
    and a baptism in Jesus.

    You get to decide if you will believe Jesus' NT revelation or not.

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  7. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    But "it's God believing, bible believing Christians" who evidently don't accept the authority of the NT word of God written, and feel free to challenge its veracity and authority.

    Not a good thing. . .re-inventing the wheel.

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
  8. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    "Interesting" approach.

    1) "Presumed commission." Have you read Ac 9:10-19? Evidently not.
    Or you believe Ananias is a liar.

    His defense of his ministry from Jesus Christ, by presenting his credentials, against the Judaizers false claims regarding him, is viewed as "haughty,"
    but his humility is viewed as fake.

    Now, that's a consistent approach.
    If his humility is fake, shouldn't his haughtiness be fake also?
    Aw, cheese Louise.

    Christ was commissioned by God to die for sin.
    Paul was commisioned by God in Christ to preach the gospel.

    Where is the rule book for the proper behavior of martyrs?

    So Paul was lying?

    This Paul,
    1) personally commissioned by Jesus Christ (Ac 9:10-19),
    2) given revelation personally by Jesus Christ into the counsel of God so deep
    that he was not allowed to repeat some of it (2Co 12:2-4),
    3) who was given the right hand of fellowship by the apostles Peter, John and James (Gal 2:9),
    4) whose writings Peter regarded as Scripture and grouped them with "the other Scriptures" (2Pe 3:16),

    this Paul never "felt right" to you.

    Now that's a sound basis for determining Biblical truth.

    If you're going to be a Biblical critic, I recommend you become more Biblically informed.

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  9. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    That's called the spirit of the anti-Christ; i.e., liars, deceivers and many (1Jn 2:18, 22; 2Jn 7).

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
  10. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Perhaps you should review Mt 23, where Jesus exclaims:

    "you hypocrites!. . .you make them twice as much a son of hell as you are. . .you blind guides! . .you blind fools! . .you blind men! . .inside you are full of greed and self indulgence. . .blind Pharisee! . .full of hypocrisy and wickedness. . .descendants of those who murdered the prophets, fill up the meaure of your forefathers' sin! . .you snakes! . .you brood of vipers! . .how will you escape being condemened to hell? . .upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Able to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar" (Mt 23:13-35)

    As the sweet little old Christian lady said, "I'm sure we'd all think more of him if he hadn't said some of those things."

    And then you might review Jn 7:19, 8:40-55, where Jesus says:

    "why are you trying to kill me? . .you are ready to kill me because you have no room for my word. . .you are determined to kill me. . .you belong to your father the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire (to kill me). He was a murderer from the beginning. . .you dishonor me. . .if I said I did not know the Father, I would be a liar like you. . ."

    Jesus, meek and mild. . .yep, Paul was "more demanding."
    And if you're going to be a Biblical critic, I recommend you beome more Biblically informed.

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  11. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    . . .:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    In the faith,
    Clare
     
  12. AmyNMoore

    AmyNMoore Truth Seeker

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    you are right i agree paul was not a false teacher. here is why some think he was.
    that some of his teachings don't line up with christs.
    it is explainable in the fact that paul said himself that he only knew 3 things of christ the crusifixion the resurection and the baptizm. until he spends 15 days in jerusalem with peter and james. then there he learns the LORDS sup
     
  13. GloryBe!

    GloryBe! Always learning.....

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    Clare, I admit that your denomination has taught you well to follow their teachings as well as how to argue that their (your) way is the ONLY way to believe. I'm not surprised by your words, but am disappointed mostly by your telling the OP to not veer from the "Canon" to improve his knowledge by including those writings that the King James translators didn't include. I truly hope that one who reads here is more of a leader...one that will choose to learn and decide for him/herself. I'm still in the RElearning stage, having thrown off the denominational chains of my youth, to learn what more so many sheep are missing.
     
  14. Zanting

    Zanting not so new

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    I do so appreciate the perspectives presented here and like GloryBe is saying...I am learning and hope always to gain a deeper more understanding of the canon as a whole. God wants me to learn and get to know him. I wasn't attending a church or going to services or being witnessed to or anything when God came to me. But He filled me with a desire to learn everything I can starting with the canon and how it came to be His trusted word. And so my journey with God has begun and it has led me to other ancient texts as well.

    It is also true that there are many different denominations and perspectives out there and God is asking me to learn. His guidance is what I am following. That's all. There is a lot of deception out there and I'm just following His path for me in seeking His truth. It may be that I will never become a member of any particular denomination...I'm leaving that in Gods hands as well. I trust Him. That's all. And posing questions to other christians is part of the learning process. CF is often where I begin, or I just read stuff...and sometimes I comment or offer support or my experience, but I don't like arguing so I don't do a lot of that anymore.

    Anyway...hope that presents some context for responders. And thanks for being so open.
     
  15. MWood

    MWood Newbie

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    As we read and study the Bible we need to realize the Bible is just a history book of how God has dealt with his human creation during those years. All of the Old Testiment is about God dealing with His chosen people, Israel. Jesus was a promise of God to the Nation of Israel through the Prophets from 1 Samuel through Malachi. The Four Gospels are an account of the fulment of that Promise. Jesus came to the Nation of Israel as their Messiah and to be their King. He was not promised to the Gentiles, only to the Nation of Israel. He said in Mat.15:24 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Even after He died on the Cross the Gentiles could not recieve any blessings from God unless they went to Israel. It was only after Steven was stoned to death (which was the rejection of the Holy Spirit) that Gods program for Israel changed.

    The Jews and Gentiles are now on equal footing in the eyes of God. They are not above all other Nations as God told them back in Moses day. We are all living in the age of the Gospel of the Grace of God. The Gospel that was given to the Apostle Paul. All that Paul preached was about what Jesus accomplished when He died on the Cross. Forgiveness of sins, Sanctification, Redemption, Reconcilation, Justification. All these were accomplished on the Cross and are not mentioned in the Old Testiment or the New Testiment. They were only revealed to the Apostle Paul. His Gospel was different than Jesus'. Jesus preached the Gosple of the Kingdom. Which was to the Jews only.

    Read and study, pay attention to what you are reading, who said it, who were they talking to, what was the context of the message, pray for understanding, knowledge, and wisdom. It will come.
     
  16. GloryBe!

    GloryBe! Always learning.....

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    :thumbs up:
     
  17. toolite

    toolite Well-Known Member

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    Paul was probably one of the strongest and the realist Prophets..

    Glory To God
     
  18. 7he4uthor

    7he4uthor 7he 7rue he4RT of 7he CRE4TOR

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    paul killed Christians
    peter denied jesus 3 times, was asked if he loves jesus 3 times, and was called satan Google

    Thomas was in doubt not faith
    jude sold out to rome
    the whole lot fell asleep on the crucial night of arrest

    did any apostle measure up ?

    and in their non canonical gospels each claims to be Jesus'
    favorite [including judas and Magdalene]

    in Daniel jesus says only Michael remained faithful
    this may refer to the ''legions of angels'' appointed to serve him
    and by Daniel;s day only 1 remained true.


    was paul false ?

    many say yes, even antichrist.


    Google

    getting a grace card is like having a second chance
    those who get the chance ought to be graceful

    Google
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  19. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: - Acts 9:15


    The Apostle Paul... Love him or hate him... He was hand picked by Christ Jesus himself to take the Gospel to the Gentiles.
     
  20. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Amen Rocky.
     
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