Paul the Apostle a false prophet?

[Zanting]

Why is it that some Christians consider Paul (and the books written by Paul) to be a false prophet and not an aposlte?

 

[IisJustMe]

Why is it that some Christians consider Paul (and the books written by Paul) to be a false prophet and not an aposlte?

Because they are unreasoning. Most are from the Hebrew Roots Movement, and believe that Christians should submit to Mosaic Law. They totally ignore the fact that the apostles settled that matter at the Council of Jerusalem. That's the way with most unreasoning people. They don't like to have the issue confused by the facts.

 

[Micahdh]

Because they are unreasoning. Most are from the Hebrew Roots Movement, and believe that Christians should submit to Mosaic Law. They totally ignore the fact that the apostles settled that matter at the Council of Jerusalem. That's the way with most unreasoning people. They don't like to have the issue confused by the facts.

Apostle Paul teachers we are saved by faith without works read Ephesians 2:8,9 Romans 3:27,28 and Galatians 2:16

Yeshua Messiah teaches we are saved by faith with works. (Matthew 5:28,29 Matt 25:31-46 and Matt 7:21...even James 2:20 says faith without works is dead.

Who are we to follow... Yeshua Messiach or Apostle Paul? Sexual immorality,magic arts,idolatry and lying are works that were prohibited by Mosaic law. Those who commit wicked acts such as these will go to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. Ask a Christian if he or she knows the ten commandments and see how many of them they know! There is a Mitzvot with 613 commandments. Many Christians don't bother learning these because they are told all they need to do is say a sinners prayer and ask Jesus into their hearts and they will be saved by grace.


Matthew 7:21........

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven".

 

[IisJustMe]

Apostle Paul teachers we are saved by faith without works read Ephesians 2:8,9 Romans 3:27,28 and Galatians 2:16

Yeshua Messiah teaches we are saved by faith with works. (Matthew 5:28,29 Matt 25:31-46 and Matt 7:21...even James 2:20 says faith without works is dead.

You're misinterpreting those verse. Christ never says faith must be accompanied by works. James is speaking of the horizontal effect of a vertical faith in Christ. In other words, our faith will produce works not because they are necessary for salvation, but because of our love for God.

 

[Zanting]

I've noticed that some Christians do pull out scripture that supports their belief, right or wrong, but there are many other verses that support Paul as an apostle as well. These seem to be overlooked or not considered relevant?

 

[PaladinValer]

The reason is due to the heresy known as Judaizerism.

 

[rockytopva]

The Apostle Paul was hand picked by the Lord Jesus Christ himself!

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: - Acts 9:15

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Why is it that some Christians consider Paul (and the books written by Paul) to be a false prophet and not an aposlte?

Jews, Muslims and some of those in the sect of Messianic Judaism have a problem with him......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7529920-34/#post56601136
Problems with Paul

So I"m reading the bible cover to cover, like any other book, in an attempt to get greater understanding, learning and growing in my relationship with God. (I don't belong to a church and won't)

Everything was going just fine.........till I got to romans, then I started having a problem here.

I'm having severe internal conflict now because I'm seeing contradictions in pauls letters.

Please help me out here.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The reason is due to the heresy known as Judaizerism.

I tend to agree with that.
Can you give some examples? thanks


........

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why is it that some Christians consider Paul (and the books written by Paul) to be a false prophet and not an aposlte?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but probably because they're heretics. Either from not understanding Paul at all, or because Paul says something they don't personally like. Often the rejection of St. Paul is wrapped up in a theological system that wants to present Christianity as all about following their favorite laws from the Torah. In other words, they aren't terribly fond that Paul has the audacity to say that it's all about God's grace.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Zanting]

So Paul was Saul who persecuted Christians. He comes along after Jesus has been sacrficed and meets up with some of the apostles, hears what they are saying and goes on a rampage to erradicate their teachings and is blinded by God. After three days, God restores His sight and He finally gets it and askes to become one of Jesus deciples...and somewhere in His teachings...people find fault. He is then accused of being a false prophet? But aren't there also many references to Paul in the Gosples stating that He became a true follower of Jesus? It seems to me people keep thinking that there is some kind of hidden message in the scriptures. Something that will remove all doubts and misconceptions and will eliminate all the decension among Christian thought. There are so many perspectives often based on certain scriptures instead of looking at the canon as a whole. And it also seems to me that there are different denominations because of this. Any thoughts on this or am I way off?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Paul was not a false prophet. When Jesus blinded Paul, there was no way that Paul was not going to be converted. Of course he had free will, but when you're in the presence of Christ, it's difficult to say no.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Apostle Paul teachers we are saved by faith without works read Ephesians 2:8,9 Romans 3:27,28 and Galatians 2:16

Yeshua Messiah teaches we are saved by faith with works. (Matthew 5:28,29 Matt 25:31-46 and Matt 7:21...even James 2:20 says faith without works is dead.

Who are we to follow... Yeshua Messiach or Apostle Paul? Sexual immorality,magic arts,idolatry and lying are works that were prohibited by Mosaic law. Those who commit wicked acts such as these will go to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. Ask a Christian if he or she knows the ten commandments and see how many of them they know! There is a Mitzvot with 613 commandments. Many Christians don't bother learning these because they are told all they need to do is say a sinners prayer and ask Jesus into their hearts and they will be saved by grace.


Matthew 7:21........

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven".

Paul did not preach faith without works. He preached that faith under the Mosaic law was not real faith. Works, to Paul, was adherence to the Law.

Properly understood, Paul and James teach the same thing.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but probably because they're heretics. Either from not understanding Paul at all, or because Paul says something they don't personally like. Often the rejection of St. Paul is wrapped up in a theological system that wants to present Christianity as all about following their favorite laws from the Torah. In other words, they aren't terribly fond that Paul has the audacity to say that it's all about God's grace.

-CryptoLutheran

Yeah, like Ephesians 5-Wives, be submissive to your husbands...

 

[JHM]

I have the book "James Brother of Jesus" which states that James was the leader of the early Christian community, and that he and Paul were enemies. Personally I regard Paul's stuff as "questionable". One wonders about it when one has read James.

 

[Zanting]

I would like to read that book...Jesus brother must have known Him better than most...

 

[Micahdh]

Paul did not preach faith without works. He preached that faith under the Mosaic law was not real faith. Works, to Paul, was adherence to the Law.

Properly understood, Paul and James teach the same thing.

Hi, Please show me the chapter and verse showing He(Paul) preached that faith under the Mosaic law was not real faith,thanks.

You say works to Paul was adherence to the law. Which law was he talking about adherence to? There are two different types of law....that what was given to Moses and the law of governing authorities.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Hi, Please show me the chapter and verse showing He(Paul) preached that faith under the Mosaic law was not real faith,thanks.

You say works to Paul was adherence to the law. Which law was he talking about adherence to? There are two different types of law....that what was given to Moses and the law of governing authorities.

I'm saying that the works Paul was referring to as being unnecessary was adherence to the law, Mosaic law, specifically circumcision.

We Can Work It Out | Catholic Answers

 

[57Logos]

Many Christians read James 2, and decide that James and Paul preach two
different messages. But this is not the case. But because of this we have two very unorothodox teaching. Some saying that we are save by grace and can do anything we please. The other saying we cannot sin; and still be saved. Those in the first group want to get rid of the Book of James and some even Hebrews. Those in the second group would like to get rid of Paul's writing.


Many will read these verses
14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food.
16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:14-17
So James is telling us that true faith has works which will follow it. But does James tell what these works are? Yes he does in verse 8, James tells us how we will do this.
If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well.
James 2:8
If one continues to read the rest of James 2, with this in mind you see that James is saying that true faith produces works of love. This is also what John calls us to in I John 3:16-18. Was this not what the writer of Hebrews was referring to in Hebrews 6:10?





So what about Paul's message someone referred to the following verses:
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boasts.
Ephesians 2:8-9
If we stop here which unforunately most Christians do, we can understand why everyone says that Paul and James preach different messages. But we see we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. But before we say that means we don't need good works we should finish reading the verse immediately following these two.
For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10
In other words we are saved by grace by faith without our works, but when the Holy Spirit fills us, we become new creature who produce the works of God by the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5). Paul explains how true faith works--For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Galatians 5:6
Paul even stated if he had faith to move mountains and doesn't have charity (the old English word for love) he was nothing in the last part of I Corinthians 13:2

So it is my honest opinion that James and Paul teach that true faith with the love of the Holy Spirit in us, is what saves us.

 

[Micahdh]

Many Christians read James 2, and decide that James and Paul preach two
different messages. But this is not the case. But because of this we have two very unorothodox teaching. Some saying that we are save by grace and can do anything we please. The other saying we cannot sin; and still be saved. Those in the first group want to get rid of the Book of James and some even Hebrews. Those in the second group would like to get rid of Paul's writing.


Many will read these verses
14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food.
16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:14-17
So James is telling us that true faith has works which will follow it. But does James tell what these works are? Yes he does in verse 8, James tells us how we will do this.
If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well.
James 2:8
If one continues to read the rest of James 2, with this in mind you see that James is saying that true faith produces works of love. This is also what John calls us to in I John 3:16-18. Was this not what the writer of Hebrews was referring to in Hebrews 6:10?





So what about Paul's message someone referred to the following verses:
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boasts.
Ephesians 2:8-9
If we stop here which unforunately most Christians do, we can understand why everyone says that Paul and James preach different messages. But we see we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. But before we say that means we don't need good works we should finish reading the verse immediately following these two.
For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10
In other words we are saved by grace by faith without our works, but when the Holy Spirit fills us, we become new creature who produce the works of God by the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5). Paul explains how true faith works--For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Galatians 5:6
Paul even stated if he had faith to move mountains and doesn't have charity (the old English word for love) he was nothing in the last part of I Corinthians 13:2

So it is my honest opinion that James and Paul teach that true faith with the love of the Holy Spirit in us, is what saves us.

Hi, If we are saved by grace by faith without our works can a Person continue to commit murder,sexual immorality,keep lying and go to heaven? In a forum there was talk about the Marriage amendment law they are trying to bring into North Carolina and someone came up there and said it's not a sin to be a homosexual because Jesus died for our sins.