Paul contridicts a lot of what christ said

[wizanda]

I have spent more time going over this and here is a better explained list; all of these can be back up with scripture references.


1. Christ said he came to fulfill the law and not to end it. Paul said he came to end the Law, and if we are in Christ we are free of the Law.



2. Christ said that we are judged by the commandments; Paul said we are free of them, if we are in Christ.



3. Christ said that we should not judge, Paul said that the spiritual may judge and should not be judged.


4. Christ said that God is the judge, Paul said Christ is.



5. Christ said that the inheritance is from God and they killed him to try and steal it, as in the parable of the vine dresser; Paul said that we have an inheritance because of Christ’s death.



6. Christ said not to sacrifice the innocent, Paul praised the fact that Christ died.



7. Christ said that God is the lord of the living; Paul said that we should remain with Christ in death.



8. Christ showed that reincarnation happens, as he said John was Elijah, Paul said we only live once.



9. Christ said God is spirit, Paul said Christ is the image of God; breaking the second commandment.



10. Christ said he was sent and was a servant and a son, Paul said Christ is equal to God and even said he was God.



11. Christ said to worship God, Paul said to worship Christ.



12. Christ said to be one in God, Paul said to be one body in Christ.



13. Christ said that faith in God is powerful; Paul said that faith is ‘the faith’ and so turning its meaning in to church attendance.



14. Christ showed and said to have faith in God; Paul said have faith in Christ.



15. Christ said have one father, Paul said he had begotten people in Christ so making him a father to them.



16. Christ said that we should want of nothing and trust in God, giving up wealth and helping the poor after his death, 3 thousand people were practicing this. Paul ended this and then said if we don’t work we don’t eat, and even went back to work while preaching him self.



17. Christ said it will be hard for a rich man to enter heaven; Paul aspired to have wealth and for two years he rented his own house.



18. Christ said we have forgiveness for forgiving others; Paul said we have forgiveness in Christ.



19. Christ said we are justified by our words, Paul said we are justified by Christ.



20. Christ said God would show mercy to the merciful, Paul said we have mercy in Christ.



21. Christ said to be like children to enter heaven; Paul said not to be like children.



22. Christ said to be the light of the world and to show the bad through love how to be good, Paul said to have nothing to do with bad people and push them out.



23. Christ and the Bible said wisdom will make you shine in heaven, and he said that we should increase the talents we are born with; Paul said to be simple in Christ.



24. Christ said, if you help collect in the harvest (works) you will receive your reward, Paul said it is not by works but by faith in Christ alone.



25. Christ said don’t make vain repetition in prayers; Paul established it as a way to pray, through the wording he used and the Pharisee ways he showed.



26. Christ said hate self and love through God’s love, then this is unconditional, Paul said who doesn’t love them self’s.



27. Christ said women can be sisters (equal), Paul said they should remain lower.



28. Christ said we should remember him through the sharing of bread (start of acts, only bread); Paul said to remember him through wine.



29. Christ said that his disciples should only drink water; Paul made the drinking of wine (communion) a religious Ritual.



30. Christ clearly showed and said do not worry about being accepted by man, Paul said to be accepted by many.



31. Christ said take up your cross and follow me, as the cross was a symbol in many cultures for God. Paul turned the cross into only a symbol of Christ’s death, and caused it to become idolatry.

32. Christ said he came to bring division, meaning that we all follow God; Paul said Christ came to bring peace.



33. Christ said God is the teacher, Paul said him self is a teacher.



34. Christ said God and the kingdom of heaven is within you, Paul said that a fake prophet would say that God is within you.



35. Christ warned of those who say the time is near, Paul preached the time is near.



36. Christ said invite the poor to your house and feed the hungry, Paul said let the hungry eat at home, and showed to only invite friends for food.

 

[wizanda]

The most important of these is concerning this:

Mat 21:33-41 Hear another parable. There was a certain housemaster who planted a vineyard and hedged it round about, and dug a winepress in it, and built a tower, and rented it to vinedressers, and went into a far country. (34) And when the season of the fruits drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers to receive its fruits. (35) And the vinedressers took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. (36) Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did the same to them. (37) But last of all he sent his son to them, saying, They will respect my son. (38) But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and get hold of his inheritance. (39) And taking him, they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. (40) Therefore when the lord of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers? (41) They said to Him, Bad men! He will miserably destroy them and will rent out his vineyard to other vinedressers who will give him the fruits in their seasons.

Paul preaching an inheritance as they killed the vine dressers son is so out of order. This has meant many have not even understood that the inheritance comes from God alone.

We as a people need to do something about this, the books need opening and the courts need to decide. As then the verdict can be final and things can be changed.

As at present if you check all of these bits up; if you are unsure ask and I will added the scriptures, if you have questions. The fact that Paul contradict most of Christ’s teachings and fulfils almost all spoken of the Anti-Christ, We can not just leave it like this.



Peace N love B with U

 

[chokmah]

I have a great deal of issues with Paul, but I think I'll keep myself clear of this thread.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Wizanda,

These comparisons of Paul and Jesus are a bit sketchy, old bean.
Jesus took the bread and wine on first communion - what is that all about with you going on about water?

The so-called contridictions are no more or less true than Jesus' stuff - they seem to complete a pretty clear railroad of parallel thoughts.

I see where yer coming from if u get a lot of s**t from peeps who use paul to beat gays and women and so on - but this is usually due to their agendas, not pauls. Obviously the geezer wasn't perfect like jesus, but i think it's unfair to call him the anti-christ!

Just sayin is all.

 

[Bonhoffer]

I have spent more time going over this and here is a better explained list; all of these can be back up with scripture references.

I dont have time to deal with all of these. But I will deal with some of them.

1. Christ said he came to fulfill the law and not to end it. Paul said he came to end the Law, and if we are in Christ we are free of the Law.

Paul was not adovocating the end of the law(of God) either. He was just saying the law should no longer pin us down.

2. Christ said that we are judged by the commandments; Paul said we are free of them, if we are in Christ.

If we are in Christ we are free from the consequences of the commandments. However even believers will be judged on judgement day for our deeds. However this is about what bonus' we get in heaven, and not about if we go to heaven or hell. Christians can still be punished for their sins, but this is only in the sense that they loose their reward or bonus' prize.

3. Christ said that we should not judge, Paul said that the spiritual may judge and should not be judged.

We should not judge 'people' but we can judge behaviour and lifestyles.

4. Christ said that God is the judge, Paul said Christ is.

Christ is God. Remember the trinity.

7. Christ said that God is the lord of the living; Paul said that we should remain with Christ in death.

there is physical death and spiritual death. God is lord of those who are spiritually alive. In this sense martin luther king is more alive than Saddam Hussein.

8. Christ showed that reincarnation happens, as he said John was Elijah, Paul said we only live once.

i think christ was saying that John had come in the spirit of Elijah.

9. Christ said God is spirit, Paul said Christ is the image of God; breaking the second commandment.

this is one exception. It is not that man became God, but that God became man.

10. Christ said he was sent and was a servant and a son, Paul said Christ is equal to God and even said he was God.

Jesus was very humble. God wants to serve 'us'.

11. Christ said to worship God, Paul said to worship Christ.

God and Christ are the same thing. This proves the trinity.

17. Christ said it will be hard for a rich man to enter heaven; Paul aspired to have wealth and for two years he rented his own house.

Christ is talking about the rich in heart. Those who put money before God. Having a lot of money isnt a sin, it depends on your attitude to it.

18. Christ said we have forgiveness for forgiving others; Paul said we have forgiveness in Christ.

Christ gives us forgiveness when we forgive others,

21. Christ said to be like children to enter heaven; Paul said not to be like children.

We should be like children in terms of innocence. But that doesnt mean we should be childish.

22. Christ said to be the light of the world and to show the bad through love how to be good, Paul said to have nothing to do with bad people and push them out.

dont have anything to do with people that are a bad influence on you , unless you are witnessing to them.

24. Christ said, if you help collect in the harvest (works) you will receive your reward, Paul said it is not by works but by faith in Christ alone.

Salvation is by faith alone, but good works brings rewards in heaven (a bonus prize).

27. Christ said women can be sisters (equal), Paul said they should remain lower.

Both Christ and Paul said men and women are equal. Paul simply said that women have a different (what people might consider 'lower')role in the family and the church.

31. Christ said take up your cross and follow me, as the cross was a symbol in many cultures for God. Paul turned the cross into only a symbol of Christ’s death, and caused it to become idolatry.

Its not idolatry unless the actual cross itself is worshipped. It is not wrong to have symbols to remember out faith by.

32. Christ said he came to bring division, meaning that we all follow God; Paul said Christ came to bring peace.

Christ had come to bring peace (aka Prince of Peace) however He new that because Satan is powerful on earth His teachings and His gospel would inevitibly cause division. Christ prefers a division than for all of us to accept Satan.

35. Christ warned of those who say the time is near, Paul preached the time is near.

Well actually Christ Himself told us to look out for signs of the time. What Christ said was dont listen to those who mention a specific time because no one knows the hour, the day or the year etc...... Christ does infer that some people will know when we are near the end of observing world events.

 

[ahab]

I think Paul was speaking for the revelation He had from the risen Christ. I think that from reading the NT we can derive that Christ has fulfilled the law. He hasnt changed it it still reminds us of what was wrong and right but He has abolished the law that judges us. The NT is the record of Christ's teaching, as much through Paul as through Matthew, Mark, Luke and John Peace

 

[tulc]

Wow, this thread was almost a year old.
tulc(who always liked Paul)

 

[DeSilentio]

those "contradictions" are mostly pretty silly. but yeah, there are points where jesus and paul would seem to contradict each other (and themselves).

paul, for all his faults, "got" jesus better than just about anyone. anyone who cherishes the gospel should cherish its greatest advocate.

a bit of a tangent...in 1 corinthians (can't recall which chapter, but it's within his discussion of divorce) paul is careful to distinguish between the "command of the lord" (jesus) and his own sort of ad hoc musings about the propriety of divorce. paul is obviously distinguishing between the words of jesus and his own thoughts, and fairly explicitly giving assigning them different levels of authority. this is most important for what it tells us about paul, but in addition I've always thought these passages present interesting problems for bible fundamentalists. if God was dictating the words or whatever, why does paul as His scribe feel the need to qualify his own statements like this? I've never really heard a good answer for that.

 

[wizanda]

2Co 11:14 Did not even Satan marvelously transform himself into an angel of light?

Is it not God who sends angels and also Christ appeared to Saul previously as angel of light?

So in this case was it not also an angel of God telling Paul not to continue, yet he choose to ignore it, and instead tell others that it was Satan?



Bonhoffer for each point you have added, please back them up with scriptures.



Yet kindly don’t try to take from the commandments (written word of God) and say that God has an image. Please


Peace N love B with U