Patriotism & the Church

[Tutorman]

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In other words you have no answer for my questions. That's fine.

Your questions were not just a strawman, but seemed to indicate a lack of loyalty to Yahweh (God) with a distinct preference for worldly views.

Yahweh says not to try to associate with or to mix LIGHT with darkness (carnal / soulish/ worldly views) .

This could make , rather does make all the difference in what is edifying and what is unbecoming for followers of Jesus.

 

[amariselle]

Yes.

Sorry, I found the information about Columbus interesting, but I didn’t understand your overall point I guess.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

And

Nice.

And God bless Texas.........

Santa Anna: "Our canon balls will blot out the sun!!"
Col Travis: "Then we will fight in the shade"

Remember the Alamo!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sorry, I found the information about Columbus interesting, but I didn’t understand your overall point I guess.

Curious, I just searched using question > was christopher columbus christian
and
surprisingly, to many anyway, a lot of published information indicates more he was not than that he was.
Perhaps more research later....... Yahweh willing....

 

[DamianWarS]

The lyrics are harmless in themselves but what tends to be carried with it is not merely a prayer for America but a strong patriotic identity that see values that lift America and values that lift God as one. Our Christian identity however should not be mixed or fused with a love for a nation. Jesus warns us to follow him we must hate our family, this can be extended to your country as well. It doesn't mean we must hate our country but it means we must hang on to it loosely and be quick to let it go when they conflict, I don't see that in the spirit of American patriotism

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The lyrics are harmless in themselves but what tends to be carried with it is not merely a prayer for America but a strong patriotic identity that see values that lift America and values that life God as one. Our Christian identity however should not be mixed or fused with a love for a nation. Jesus warns us to follow him we must hate our family, this can be extended to your country as well. It doesn't mean we must hate our country but it means we must hang on to it loosely and be quick to let it go when they conflict, I don't see that in the spirit of American patriotism

When Yahweh's Word says "hate", He means "hate". We must hate our lives even , in this world, if we want to follow Jesus obediently, faithfully as disciples.

Are the lyrics harmless ? Maybe. Maybe not. Or is it the meaning?
Perhaps a tangent, think on this>
https://theaccidentalmissionary.wor...the-one-things-christians-should-stop-saying/
... ... ...
"Second, and more importantly, calling myself blessed because of material good fortune is just plain wrong. For starters, it can be offensive to the hundreds of millions of Christians in the world who live on less than $10 per day. You read that right. Hundreds of millions who receive a single-digit dollar “blessing” per day.

During our year in Guatemala, Gabby and I witnessed first-hand the damage done by the theology of prosperity, where faithful people scraping by to feed their families were simply told they must not be faithful enough. If they were, God would pull them out of their nightmare. Just try harder, and God will show favor.

The problem? Nowhere in scripture are we promised worldly ease in return for our pledge of faith. In fact, the most devout saints from the Bible usually died penniless, receiving a one-way ticket to prison or death by torture." ... ... ...

 

[amariselle]

As this thread has continued, since I started it this past Sunday, things have been written here that just confirm the concerns I expressed in the OP.

As Christians we really do need to be considerate and loving toward our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Let’s not create division where there is none.

 

[Dale]

So, what is your opinion of patriotism as a part of Christian worship?

Should we have patriotism in the church? It's not entirely a simple question.

The churches I grew up with would sing America the Beautiful in church. This song does refer to God in every stanza. The Star Spangled Banner is far less religious, although the second stanza has the motto, "In God is our trust!" The Battle Hymn of the Republic was often sung in church when I was younger.

I have heard some debate over whether there should be an American flag in the church sanctuary. Many churches do have one. This comes about partly because they pair it with the Christian flag. The American flag doesn't seem intrusive to me and I would not be surprised to see a national flag of whatever country the church is in.

Perhaps the question is, if patriotism is proper in church, why do we so often hear that politics should be kept out of church? Can you have patriotism without politics, or is patriotism just the kind of politics a lot of people are used to?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

When Yahweh's Word says "hate", He means "hate". We must hate our lives even , in this world, if we want to follow Jesus obediently, faithfully as disciples.

Are the lyrics harmless ? Maybe. Maybe not. Or is it the meaning?
Perhaps a tangent, think on this>
https://theaccidentalmissionary.wor...the-one-things-christians-should-stop-saying/
... ... ...
"Second, and more importantly, calling myself blessed because of material good fortune is just plain wrong. For starters, it can be offensive to the hundreds of millions of Christians in the world who live on less than $10 per day. You read that right. Hundreds of millions who receive a single-digit dollar “blessing” per day.

During our year in Guatemala, Gabby and I witnessed first-hand the damage done by the theology of prosperity, where faithful people scraping by to feed their families were simply told they must not be faithful enough. If they were, God would pull them out of their nightmare. Just try harder, and God will show favor.

The problem? Nowhere in scripture are we promised worldly ease in return for our pledge of faith. In fact, the most devout saints from the Bible usually died penniless, receiving a one-way ticket to prison or death by torture." ... ... ...

Nice post and thanks for the testimony concerning Guatemala.
2 Corinthians 11 describes the hardships Paul went thru spreading the Gospel.
A true spirit led Missionary:

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-and-similarities-of-him-found-in-ot.8069174/

2 Corinthians 11:
22 Are they Hebrews?† So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the descendants of Abraham?† So am I.
23 Are they servants of Christ? I’m talking like a madman — I’m a better one:
with far more labors,
many more imprisonments,
far worse beatings,
many times near death.
24 Five times I received the forty lashes minus one from the Jews.†
25 Three times I was beaten with rods.†
Once I received a stoning.†
Three times I was shipwrecked.†
I have spent a night and a day in the open sea.
26 On frequent journeys, I faced:
dangers from rivers,
dangers from robbers,†
dangers from my own people,†
dangers from Gentiles,
dangers in the city,
dangers in the wilderness,
dangers at sea, and
dangers among false brothers;
27 toil and hardship,
many sleepless nights,
hunger and thirst, often without food,
cold, and without clothing.†
28 Not to mention† other things, there is the daily pressure on me: my concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble,† and I do not burn with indignation?

2 Timothy 4:
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering,† and the time for my departure is close.
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
8 There is reserved for me the crown†of the righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge,† will give me on that day, and not only to me, but to all those who have loved his appearing.........

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Not sure what you mean but I use 'flag' figuratively for any focus that may conflict with God. It may literally be "waving a flag" as we have seen already demonstrated in this thread the point is when we lift something else up that isn't God the focus towards God is divided. So we need to be careful when we praise things especially in official capacity in the church in case we confuse our worship with that of our patriotic expression to our country.

The phrase "God and country" ought not to be used together really because it very likely boils down to "country and country” but add the word "God" putting it first so it sounds better." If one acts like they do not love God in how they treat others who do not agree with their love of country, then no one, even God, sees any love of God.

Not sure what you mean but I use 'flag' figuratively for any focus that may conflict with God. It may literally be "waving a flag" as we have seen already demonstrated in this thread the point is when we lift something else up that isn't God the focus towards God is divided. So we need to be careful when we praise things especially in official capacity in the church in case we confuse our worship with that of our patriotic expression to our country.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Happy Independence Day Americans!!

Of course it’s good to thank God for the country you live in and the job you enjoy and the family and friends you’re blessed with. Naturally this is right and proper.

What is not good is to think that means you insist your country or family or job or friends are the best in the whole world and everyone else lives with less. This is more like the guy who thanked God he was not like the other, that is, he thanked God that he was better than other men.

 

[DamianWarS]

When Yahweh's Word says "hate", He means "hate". We must hate our lives even , in this world, if we want to follow Jesus obediently, faithfully as disciples.

Are the lyrics harmless ? Maybe. Maybe not. Or is it the meaning?
Perhaps a tangent, think on this>
https://theaccidentalmissionary.wor...the-one-things-christians-should-stop-saying/
... ... ...
"Second, and more importantly, calling myself blessed because of material good fortune is just plain wrong. For starters, it can be offensive to the hundreds of millions of Christians in the world who live on less than $10 per day. You read that right. Hundreds of millions who receive a single-digit dollar “blessing” per day.

During our year in Guatemala, Gabby and I witnessed first-hand the damage done by the theology of prosperity, where faithful people scraping by to feed their families were simply told they must not be faithful enough. If they were, God would pull them out of their nightmare. Just try harder, and God will show favor.

The problem? Nowhere in scripture are we promised worldly ease in return for our pledge of faith. In fact, the most devout saints from the Bible usually died penniless, receiving a one-way ticket to prison or death by torture." ... ... ...

Then we are told to hate our country

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Then we are told to hate our country

Now you are closer to having it right, perhaps, yes.
Yahweh says clearly what to do and how to consider the country's government.
We live by every Word of Yahweh, every Word of His is Truth.

 

[brinny]

Amen! God bless America today, on this 4th of July, our Independence Day. A very blessed Independence Day to you Tutorman.

 

[brinny]

God surely shed His grace on this country, and on us.

God bless America!

A very blessed July 4th, Independence Day. May we never forget those who gave their lives to make this Independence Day possible.

 

[amariselle]

God surely offers His grace, mercy and love to all mankind. No matter what nationality a person is, His grace is available to them.

On this 4th of July (and every day) May we never forget the One Who gave His life to make true freedom possible.

In Him all true believers are united, regardless of tongue, tribe, nation or country.

All praise, honour and glory to God for this day that He made.

 

[brinny]

May God's hand of protection and His favor and blessings be upon this country on this day of remembrance. May we never forget His Goodness and His favor that He granted us in the war that trounced tyranny, by His grace alone, and may tyranny never ever touch these shores again. For it is in Him that we trust, and hope in, and give thanksgiving to, and continue to be blessed with the right to speak His name and honor and worship Him. May all those who aim to trample those rights be silenced and put to shame, along with the hatred and superstitions and false piety that bludgeons wisdom, discernment, and clarity, and stomps on grace. Father may it be so, in the name of Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of You, the living God, the God of the living, amen.

Let it rain.

 

[amariselle]

May God's hand of protection and His favor and blessings be upon this country on this day of remembrance.

And on all His faithful in all countries, this day and every day.

May we never forget His Goodness and His favor that He granted us

Agreed. And may it be so, no matter where we live on this earth.

in the war that trounced tyranny, by His grace alone, and may tyranny never ever touch these shores again.

Which war? War is the result of tyranny. It’s horrific. We should never celebrate it or thank God for it. We should never thank God for the killing of other human beings created in His image. War is caused by men, by tyrannical governments of countries that go to war with each other, it is not caused or sanctioned by God.

For it is in Him that we trust, and hope in, and give thanksgiving to, and continue to be blessed with the right to speak His name and honor and worship Him.

Agreed. And in whichever country this is possible, Christians should indeed give thanks, and pray for brothers and sisters in Christ who live where such freedom to worship God openly is not possible.

May all those who aim to trample those rights be silenced and put to shame, along with the hatred and superstitions and false piety that bludgeons wisdom, discernment, and clarity, and stomps on grace.

I truly hope that the above is not aimed at me and those who disagree with exalting any one earthly nation or country as part of Christian worship.

Father may it be so, in the name of Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of You, the living God, the God of the living, amen.

Let it rain.

May we all glorify God, this day and every day.

Amen.

 

[brinny]

And on all His faithful in all countries, this day and every day.



Agreed. And may it be so, no matter where we live on this earth.



Which war? War is the result of tyranny. It’s horrific. We should never celebrate it or thank God for it. We should never thank God for he killing of other human beings created in His image. War is caused by men, by tyrannical governments of countries that go to war with each other, it is not caused or sanctioned by God.



Agreed. And in whichever country this is possible, Christians should indeed give thanks, and pray for brothers and sisters in Christ who live where such freedom to worship God openly is not possible.



I truly hope that the above is not aimed at me and those who disagree with exalting any one earthly nation or country as part of Christian worship.



May we all glorify God, this day and every day.

Amen.

That is a prayer to the living God.

It's sealed. Done.

Unless you are praying in agreement with it, it is best that you not tamper with it.

Otherwise start your own.

I've been praying for my country for several years.

I have also prayed for your country, Canada.

It is only recently that i realized the hatred that many Canadians have for my country, and for us, the American people, and the utter contempt that is expressed and the vitriol.

To begrudge our country the Independence from tyranny day that we have a right to remember, and yes, celebrate, belies any pious words or platitudes about grace or love or anything of the sort.

It is a remembrance day for us, the American people. We WILL remember, and celebrate, by the grace of God and in thankfulness to the liberty, freedom, and rights that He has so graciously granted to us.

On that note, it is pure folly to tamper with a prayer to the living God. I suggest you refrain from it.

In the meantime, i will continue praying for my country, and i will celebrate our glorious freedom and liberty that God has so graciously granted us.

God BLESS America, my home sweet home.

Father may it be so, in the name of Jesus, amen.

"Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake." ~Isaiah 54:15

"No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD." ~Isaiah 54:17