Pat Robertson and the Left Behind Series

[deu58]

hello all

freeinchrist said,
And I know quite a number of pretribbers that are this day risking their lives for Christ in Muslim countries and elsewhere. If they were just escapists...why are they doing that? (BTW, I know some that have gone back to China. Seems they believe that the persecution there is not due to the wrath of God either.)

I am an American living in the Philippines, Not long ago I met a American Pentecostal couple in their 60's who were going to Veitnam to minister, I mentioned that as far as I knew Vietnam was hostile to Christianity, They said they knew that and were actually going to be smuggled into the country, I met another american baptist couple the husband a doctor and the wife a nurse, who minister in Mindanao,

That is where all the fighting between Christians/Muslims {Abu Sayeef etc.} is happening. There are many of our brothers and sisters from the west who willingly leave comfort and safety behind to wage the war of love and peace in Christ . Hats off and many prayers for those couragous souls

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[jbarker28]

Then what church are you from? I know of no other church that teaches this - that we decided our fates before we were born, having been living with God before our earthly existence. (??!!??)

I'm sorry.. I did not mean to give the impression that I believed that our 'fate' has already been decided... I believe that anyone can choose to follow God or not.. However, you have to ask yourself... where do God's elect fit into this equation... Chosen before the foundations of the world... Is their 'fate' already decided by God? If so, then why can't other's already have their 'fate' decided in the other direction?

It's mentioned in Isaiah pretty well.

I'm sorry... could you please clarify... what's mentioned in Isaiah?

In faith and peace,

Joshua

 

[FreeinChrist]

I'm sorry.. I did not mean to give the impression that I believed that our 'fate' has already been decided... I believe that anyone can choose to follow God or not.. However, you have to ask yourself... where do God's elect fit into this equation... Chosen before the foundations of the world... Is their 'fate' already decided by God? If so, then why can't other's already have their 'fate' decided in the other direction?

You wrote and I will make a part bold: "I believe in three world ages, and that we existed before this earth age and lived with God, and that some of us chose to side with anti-christ during the rebellion and some chose God and some didn't care..."
Do you believe we lived with God before living on earth and that we made choices then? Please clarify, for this statement raised some big red flags to me.

 

[jbarker28]

You wrote and I will make a part bold: "I believe in three world ages, and that we existed before this earth age and lived with God, and that some of us chose to side with anti-christ during the rebellion and some chose God and some didn't care..."
Do you believe we lived with God before living on earth and that we made choices then? Please clarify, for this statement raised some big red flags to me.

I do believe that we existed before this "earth-age" with God.
The first "earth-age" was the age which existed before the foundations of this "world", with the "world" meaning the current "heavens and earth which are reserved unto fire(2Pe 3:7), and that when Satan rebelled, some followed his rebellion, some did not, and some did not choose sides.

However, I'm NOT saying that this choice means our current life in the flesh has already been laid out, EXCEPT in the specific instance of God's elect, who were chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4). I believe that God's elect are predestined (Eph 1:5,1:11) to fulfill certain functions or works and although they have free will, they're life is not the same as those who are not God' elect...

My postulate is that, if God has predestined some for his election, then it is also possible that some have been predestined (or predisposed) in an opposite manner, (like Esau, Pharoah, or Hitler).. And if we did exist before the foundation of this "world/earth age/heaven & earth", and if some were predestined for good and but others for bad, then is it not at least possible that this predestination or predisposition may be based on choices we made previously?

But please understand that I am not 100% on this... This is a personal theory based on specific scriptures which I feel allude to this possiblity. Despite this however, my views are not un-scriptural. In fact, I don't know of any scripture which refutes anything I have said here. If you can present me with a verse or two which shows my error, then please do so, because the last thing I want to do is give time to false doctrine..

In faith and peace,

Joshua

 

[FreeinChrist]

Beleiving that God knew in advance who would accept Him and who wouldn't is one thing.

Believing we had an existence in heaven before the formation of the earth....well, that is a heresy taught by some like the LDS church.

 

[jbarker28]

Beleiving that God knew in advance who would accept Him and who wouldn't is one thing.

Believing we had an existence in heaven before the formation of the earth....well, that is a heresy taught by some like the LDS church.

Why is it considered heresy? Can you give me scripture to show my error?

In faith and peace,

Joshua

 

[FreeinChrist]

Look for any scripture that says we had an existence in heaven before living on this earth. Any scripture that says we foreknew God. That we made any choice before we were born. It will not be there.

There is scripture saying God foreknew us...the Greek word for 'foreknowledge' is 'prognosis' and means prescience, recognizing beforehand. God is omniscient - He knows all, even what will be. In fact, we are told in Isaiah that God knew the end from the beginning.

Isaiah 46
9
"Remember the (1) former things long past,
For I am God, and there is (2) no other;
I am God, and there is (3) no one like Me,
10
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, '(4) My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';
11
Calling a (5) bird of prey from the (6) east,
The man of My purpose from a far country.
Truly I have (7) spoken; truly I will bring it to pass.
I have planned it, surely I will do it.

 

[Breetai]

I agree with FreeinChrist.

 

[RVincent]

Don't you hate it when message boards freeze?

 

[RVincent]

oops

 

[RVincent]

Guilt by Association can be a dangerous thing. I don't think that jbarker28 has to be associated with the LSD's in order to know the following:

(Eph 1:4) According as he hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

foundation = overthrow, or katabloe. Satan's little rebellion caused quite a geological uproar.

(Jer 1:5) Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

(Rom 8:29-30) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. {30} Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Heresy against men's religion is unimportant.