Pat Robertson and the Left Behind Series

[billiefan2000]

Yesterday morning on the 700 club, Pat Robertson said that he did not believe the basic ideas that the Left Behind series was based on.

He then quoted a scripture that said that when Jesus comes back to reign, the wicked would first be taken out and then the "kingdom" would begin. I am not being critical here of anyone.

He did not give the chapter and verse of this scripture that he quoted and I do not remember where it is.

I know that Pat Robertson does not believe in the rapture and is a Post tribber but this scripture verse does puzzle me.

Does anyone know where it is found?


I generally like Pat Robertson as his organization does do a lot of good.

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Billiefan,

I believe he gets that doctrine from here:

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

I too am posttrib, prewrath, but I disagree with that doctrine.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Lady Goodnews]

Hi Billiefan,

I do not know what Scripture, Pat Robertson used.

I know some use (Matt. 13:40-43; Dan. 12:1-4) to support that belief.

Lady Goodnews,

 

[duster1az]

Yesterday morning on the 700 club, Pat Robertson said that he did not believe the basic ideas that the Left Behind series was based on.

He then quoted a scripture that said that when Jesus comes back to reign, the wicked would first be taken out and then the "kingdom" would begin. I am not being critical here of anyone.

He did not give the chapter and verse of this scripture that he quoted and I do not remember where it is.

I know that Pat Robertson does not believe in the rapture and is a Post tribber but this scripture verse does puzzle me.

Does anyone know where it is found?


I generally like Pat Robertson as his organization does do a lot of good.

(Matthew 24:36-41)

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[educk]

I know that Pat Robertson does not believe in the rapture and is a Post tribber but this scripture verse does puzzle me.

I doubt that this is his position, but if it is, then I am with Him. The Rapture theology is from what I can determine man invented, and only started flourishing in the Church in the 1600's - made popular by the Schofield translation notes among evangelicals. Basically, I think the whole Left Behind series is an evangelical conspiracy.

But I DO believe that Jesus is coming back to be with His bride.

 

[BearJim]

I, too agree with pat Robertson. My concern with the "Left Behind" series is that it brings a false hope to Christians- that we will not be here to see the Tribulation. I read a book titled "Revelation", which is a fictional account of the last days. One of the issues the book deals with is the apostacy of some believers when they realize that they are indeed in the midst of the Tribulation. They believed that God had lied and that Satan had won!
What will believers do and how will they react when the antichrist is revealed and the judgements begin to fall?
On a side note, remember that Pat Robertson is amillenial and a believer in "Kingdom Now" theology.

 

[educk]

I, too agree with pat Robertson. My concern with the "Left Behind" series is that it brings a false hope to Christians- that we will not be here to see the Tribulation. I read a book titled "Revelation", which is a fictional account of the last days. One of the issues the book deals with is the apostacy of some believers when they realize that they are indeed in the midst of the Tribulation. They believed that God had lied and that Satan had won!
What will believers do and how will they react when the antichrist is revealed and the judgements begin to fall?
On a side note, remember that Pat Robertson is amillenial and a believer in "Kingdom Now" theology.

I call it Escapist Theology. Why is everyone so desperate to get off the planet, and what happened to - you will suffer for my name sake? It’s because western Christianity is largely cushy. Talk about suffering – read some of the stories of our brothers in the China – it will make you weep.

Here is a good little snippet: Jesus In China

But you are right, what if it doesn't happen? What if it was all just man invented? To me it will be no loss, because let's assume the rapture is real, then my being raptured is not dependant on me believing it. It's a win-win, because my faith is in Jesus Christ. My faith in Him transcends my ability to perform or make it happen, or to assume I have anything to give him. I am nothing before Him, only He is good and great. In that place I am raptured into His presence every single day of my life. All I want is for Him to be ALL in me, and to fulfill His desire: He must increase, and I must decrease. My hope and my boasting is in the Cross and that’s the only thing Paul spoke of to the saints.

Till He comes to be with us again - keep the peace!

 

[Laserman]

Hello,

Sounds like Pat Roberton is an Amillenialist. Hmmm, maybe I have more in common with him than I thought. I too hold that when Christ returns he will begin the real Kingdom that will last for eternity, not just one Thousand years. Why people connect Rev 20 to every passage associated with "The Kingdom" is beyond me. There doesn't seem to me to be a Bible reason for doing so. "Except a man beborn again he cannot see the Kingdom of God". To me the kingdom Jesus and Paul spoke of had to do with salvation and entering in with a regenerated heart. I could be wrong. Many people believe otherwise. I used to think differently but when you take a concordance and look at every mention of "Kingdom" it becomes clear to me anyway that Kingdom is not one thousand year period preceding the 2nd coming of Christ.

Barry

 

[educk]

Yes, the Kingdom is at hand. It's here among us, if only we will open our eyes and recognize it, or let me say Him.

 

[FreeinChrist]

On a side note, remember that Pat Robertson is amillenial and a believer in "Kingdom Now" theology.

Pat Robertson is not amillenial. He is premil, posttrib.

http://www.cbnindia.org/200Questions/article.php?topic=12#97
[font=Helvetica,]When Will The Rapture of The Church Take Place?[/font]



[font=Helvetica,]The word RAPIO is a Latin word meaning "seized." As far as I can tell, the word RAPTURE does not appear in the Bible. It is a term people us to describe the catching up of Christians when Jesus comes back. Paul said that we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (see I Thessalonians 4:17). That is what we call the Rapture of the church. It will happen at the end of this age when Jesus Christ comes back to earth again. As He comes from heaven, we will be caught up to meet Him in the air, and then we will be forever with the Lord. I believe it will happen after the Tribulation and before the thousand-year reign of Christ on earth called the Millennium [/font]


[font=Helvetica,]What Is The Millennium?[/font]



[font=Helvetica,]A millennium is one thousand years. The biblical Millennium will be a period of peace, love, and brotherhood when all nature lives in the harmony that was intended in the Garden of Eden (see Revelation 20:6). The book of Isaiah speaks of a time when the wild animals will live at peace with domestic animals, when the serpents will no longer bite. A little child will be able to play by a cobra's den or lead wild beasts around and not be harmed. Military schools will close, and implements of war will no longer be manufactured. The money and resources that now go into warfare will then be devoted to peaceful pursuits. When this day comes, every person will have his own plot of ground, his own home. All will live in harmony with their neighbors. No one will be afraid that someone will try to steal his belongings. There will be universal peace, for the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea (see Isaiah 11:6-9). I believe the Millennium is a transition period, when Jesus Christ comes back to earth to show mankind what it would have been like if sin had never entered the world. It will be a time when Jesus Christ will reign as king, and the Kingdom of God will be established on earth. There will be a one-world government under the leadership of Jesus with nation-states subject to Him. The Bible says representatives of the nations of the earth will come to Jerusalem each year (see Isaiah 2:2-4, Zechariah 14:16). Apparently all governments will be subject to godly people and, at that time, Israel will be the key nation on earth. [/font]

I agree with on on the premil part, anyway.

 

[educk]

Pat Robertson is not amillenial. He is premil, posttrib.

Yip, that's consitent with the Pat Robertson I know.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I call it Escapist Theology. Why is everyone so desperate to get off the planet, and what happened to - you will suffer for my name sake?

And I know quite a number of pretribbers that are this day risking their lives for Christ in Muslim countries and elsewhere. If they were just escapists...why are they doing that? (BTW, I know some that have gone back to China. Seems they believe that the persecution there is not due to the wrath of God either.)

One false notion put out about pretrib is that those that believe just want a cushy, safe life. False. It means we expect persecution in this world, but we expect to escape the wrath of God - just as we are told we would. We believe God keeps His promises.

But you are right, what if it doesn't happen? What if it was all just man invented? To me it will be no loss, because let's assume the rapture is real, then my being raptured is not dependant on me believing it. It's a win-win, because my faith is in Jesus Christ. [/quote}

And as a pretribber, my faith is 100% in Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour.

 

[educk]

One false notion put out about pretrib is that those that believe just want a cushy, safe life. False. It means we expect persecution in this world, but we expect to escape the wrath of God - just as we are told we would. We believe God keeps His promises.

God's wrath was poured out on Christ. It does not need to happen again. He is busy summing up everything in Christ. It's possible that Revelation spoke of the future, but it's more likely not, which becomes a problem if we build movements around possible false revelations or interpretations of Scripture.

I know many pretribbers who desperately want to escape. They buy every book on the Left Behind series, and somehow they wire everything around them into this event. They look for signs which do not exist. They live in the future; they don't live here and now.

The bottom line for me is that it does not matter as far as it relates to faith in Jesus Christ. We are all free to follow our conscience on this and other matters. We don’t have to conform everyone to the same point of view in order to validate Scripture.

Keep the faith!

 

[FreeinChrist]

God's wrath was poured out on Christ. It does not need to happen again. He is busy summing up everything in Christ. It's possible that Revelation spoke of the future, but it's more likely not, which becomes a problem if we build movements around possible false revelations or interpretations of Scripture.

Yet, scripture tells us there is a future wrath of God .

I know many pretribbers who desperately want to escape. They buy every book on the Left Behind series, and somehow they wire everything around them into this event. They look for signs which do not exist. They live in the future; they don't live here and now.

And I know many who believe that need to reach all we can for Christ now, feeling an urgency to do God's work...and they haven't read that series.

I do not have a problem if someone disagrees on a scriptural basis - that they interpret it differently. What I am unhappy with are the general characterizations that are heaped - unfairly - on pretribbers themselves. That can be done in many ways.

 

[educk]

Therefore we need Christ, because we all interperet based on our limited vision of the Big Picture. It's very easy to be misunderstood, the best is not to be too defensive about it. It happens and our feelings and reputation should die along with the old man. Tough one, but I am learning it myself.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Yes, it is easy to be misunderstood. And there are those who attack people rather than the view itself. I have found that it is necessary, at times, to point that out.

 

[jbarker28]

And I know quite a number of pretribbers that are this day risking their lives for Christ in Muslim countries and elsewhere. If they were just escapists...why are they doing that? (BTW, I know some that have gone back to China. Seems they believe that the persecution there is not due to the wrath of God either.)

One false notion put out about pretrib is that those that believe just want a cushy, safe life. False. It means we expect persecution in this world, but we expect to escape the wrath of God - just as we are told we would. We believe God keeps His promises.

Here's a question for you.. Why do you think Christians need to 'escape' God's wrath? Why in fact, do we need to 'escape' anything? What exactly is God's wrath is going to be and what form is it going to take?

Man, and here I thought I was just a Christian... whew... post-trib, pre-trib, amillineal.. ugh... I don't understand any of that... maybe if I told you guys what I believe in, you all could tell me what classification(s) I'm supposed to fit into?

Lets see... I believe that Jesus is the son of God, that he is God made flesh, that he died for our sins, and was raised from the dead and ascended to heaven, and he sits at the right hand of God, waiting until his enemies are made his footstool, and that only the Father knows when that time will be.

I believe that when you die, EVERYONE goes to the presence of the Father, but that those who overcame are seperated from those who did not. I believe that there is no such thing as Rapture, that it is a false doctrine, and that our duty as Christians in the final days is to love God, obey him, and be witnesses against anti-Christ. I believe in three world ages, and that we existed before this earth age and lived with God, and that some of us chose to side with anti-christ during the rebellion and some chose God and some didn't care...

I believe that there will be a one-world government/religious/economic system that will precursor the physical manifestation of Satan as Anti-Christ. That he will appear to the world full of power and fake glory, and decieve the world that he is Christ/God, and that most of the world will follow/worship him and be blinded by his deception. I believe that Jesus will return and 'as lighting flashes from the east is seen in the west', so shall his return be... I believe that there will be an epic battle between Jesus and his Angels and Satan and his angels/followers, and that Satan will be defeated, cast into the pit for a thousand years, during which time Christ will rule on earth, and any people who did not get a proper chance to make their choice in this earth age will get their chance during the millenium, at the end of which Satan will be released again for a short period of time for a final testing, after which will come the judgement, the final death, and then the 3rd earth age, which will last for eternity...

Whew... so, where do I fit in around here?

In faith and peace,

Joshua

 

[FreeinChrist]

Lets see... I believe that Jesus is the son of God, that he is God made flesh, that he died for our sins, and was raised from the dead and ascended to heaven, and he sits at the right hand of God, waiting until his enemies are made his footstool, and that only the Father knows when that time will be.

Well, I agree with that...

I believe that there is no such thing as Rapture, that it is a false doctrine,

Then how do you explain I Thes. 4:15 - 18?

I believe in three world ages,

which are?

and that we existed before this earth age and lived with God, and that some of us chose to side with anti-christ during the rebellion and some chose God and some didn't care...

And is this doctrine from the Mormon church? They are a group that believe we exist as spirits before our earthly life ... but I believe it is totally unscriptural.

I believe that there will be a one-world government/religious/economic system that will precursor the physical manifestation of Satan as Anti-Christ. That he will appear to the world full of power and fake glory, and decieve the world that he is Christ/God, and that most of the world will follow/worship him and be blinded by his deception. I believe that Jesus will return and 'as lighting flashes from the east is seen in the west', so shall his return be... I believe that there will be an epic battle between Jesus and his Angels and Satan and his angels/followers, and that Satan will be defeated, cast into the pit for a thousand years, during which time Christ will rule on earth, and any people who did not get a proper chance to make their choice in this earth age will get their chance during the millenium, at the end of which Satan will be released again for a short period of time for a final testing, after which will come the judgement, the final death, and then the 3rd earth age, which will last for eternity...

Whew... so, where do I fit in around here?

Don't know...that bit about existing before 'this earth age' ...that is unorthodox.

 

[jbarker28]

Then how do you explain I Thes. 4:15 - 18?

You can't take these out of context... First lets look at what's going on here... Paul has written a letter to the churches in Thessalonia... in which he covers many subject... Chapter 4 has to do with exhorting the Thessalonians "to walk and to please God". This particular subject, however, begins in 1Th 4:13, which states:

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

The word "asleep" is koimao in the greek, and is used in the New Testament to "Describe a Christian who has moved from his earthly body to his heavenly body... [and] to differentiate this condition from the state of death for the unbeliever" - Chuck Smith

We then continue with 1Th 4:14, which states:

"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

This means that when Christ returns, all those who died in Christ previously will come back with him.

1Th 4:15 continues:

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep."

In this verse, the word "prevent" is phthano in the Greek and is better translated precede... Meaning that those who are alive at the 2nd coming will not precede or "have an advantage over those who died earlier" -Chuck Smith

1Th 4:16 says futher:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

The dead in Christ shall rise first because they are already in heaven and WITH CHRIST WHEN HE RETURNS TO EARTH!!! In the old testament, the sounding of trumpets called people to war, or to an assembly of of God's people... So when Christ returns with the trump of God, leading the dead in Christ with him, he will call the remaining Christians together...

But please note that all of this is after the FINAL TRUMP... that is, after Satan comes as Anti-Christ to deceive the world...

which are?

the 1st earth age was the one before this one, in which Satan rebelled

Eze 28:14-15 "Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up
and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

the 2nd earth age is the current one

2Pet 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

The 3rd earth age is the final, eternal one with God

2Pet 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

2Pet 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

And is this doctrine from the Mormon church? They are a group that believe we exist as spirits before our earthly life ... but I believe it is totally unscriptural.

Well, I'm not a Mormon... but why did God hate Esau even before he was born?

Rom 9:11-13 For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;... As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

In faith and peace,

Joshua

 

[FreeinChrist]

You can't take these out of context... First lets look at what's going on here... Paul has written a letter to the churches in Thessalonia... in which he covers many subject... Chapter 4 has to do with exhorting the Thessalonians "to walk and to please God". This particular subject, however, begins in 1Th 4:13, which states:

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

The word "asleep" is koimao in the greek, and is used in the New Testament to "Describe a Christian who has moved from his earthly body to his heavenly body... [and] to differentiate this condition from the state of death for the unbeliever" - Chuck Smith

Well, I take the passage in the context of the whole book - as done with Inductive Bible study.

I believe that we go to Christ's presence in spirit when we die - but there is a future bodily resurrection - and this is what is referred to in I thes. 4 - the spirits of those who died are joined to a glorified body and we who are alive will be changed - as described in I Cor. 15.

Well, I'm not a Mormon...

Then what church are you from? I know of no other church that teaches this - that we decided our fates before we were born, having been living with God before our earthly existence. (??!!??)

but why did God hate Esau even before he was born?

Rom 9:11-13 For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;... As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Ever consider that God is omnipotent, and omniscient and knew the end from the beginning and knew in advance who would believe and who wouldn't?

It's mentioned in Isaiah pretty well.