Pastor leaves Adventism

[sentipente]

DJ, you have a perfect recipe for frustration. You are striving to achieve something you cannot measure so you have no idea when you have attained it. Yet, you want to accuse others of not attaining it because you still think you have the standard with which to measure it. How confused can one get?

 

[djconklin]

You are striving to achieve something you cannot measure

I never said I could measure it and if fact I explicitly pointed to the 10C.

so you have no idea when you have attained it.

I never said that you wouldn't know.

Yet, you want to accuse others of not attaining it

I have never done that either.

because you still think you have the standard with which to measure it.

We do--that's why God gave us the 10C.

How confused can one get?

I'm not confused at all.

 

[StormyOne]

The ellipsis (the '...') covers the part that wasn't quoted. The point of my post obviously only dealt with the part that was quoted.


The Bible speaks quite clearly without making snide remarks

seems like I was just telling you that yesterday, and you refused to listen, since your responses to me seem to drip of snideness and condescension....

The word used in the KJV is τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
which means: complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

It does not mean perfect as in without flaw.....

have a good day...

 

[djconklin]

since your responses to me seem to drip of snideness and condescension....

You are reading that in.

The word used in the KJV is τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
which means: complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

So, it does mean perfect--why did you fail to see that?

It does not mean perfect as in without flaw.....

Who said it meant that? Do you think God is so dumb that when he inpired Moses to write that Noah was perfect that He didn't know what he was talking about? Or, when Jesus tells us to be perfect "as your Father in Heaven is perfect" are you saying that God is flawed?

have a good day...

Not for another 7 hours or so.

 

[djconklin]

LOL! Are you wise?

So I have been told by my bosses.

Then why not admit that you are wrong?

When I am I do.

Are you in denial?

Nope.

Only those who are in denial will never ever admit that they are as sinful now as the day they trusted Christ...

Since I have overcome some sins since then that would be a lie. We are supposed to make progress in our Christian walk.

but wait...if a person thinks they are perfect or becoming perfect, then they make Christ a servant of them selves, seeing they seek perfection by performance.

If you are in Christ you are perfect in God's eyes--no work involved.

Such a bad place to be. Hey...why is it that law followers are never loving peope?

"never"? Who did that study? How large was the sample size? Were they really able to read hearts and minds? I doubt it. This is a bogus claim. The law spociifcally tells you to love God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. So, if you love Christ and are following Him then you will love and you will be obeying the law at the same time.

I think its because they are so frustrated at not being able to live up to the law.

You have at least two false assumptions in there.

Let Jesus carry you, other wise you will never be able to get through the front door of the law.

Right. Good SDA teaching.

 

[StormyOne]

You are reading that in.

The word used in the KJV is τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
which means: complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

So, it does mean perfect--why did you fail to see that?



Who said it meant that? Do you think God is so dumb that when he inpired Moses to write that Noah was perfect that He didn't know what he was talking about? Or, when Jesus tells us to be perfect "as your Father in Heaven is perfect" are you saying that God is flawed?



Not for another 7 hours or so.

have it your way DJ, I keep forgetting, you are never wrong.... take care....

 

[djconklin]

you are never wrong

I have never said that. In fact, I explicitly noted in the previous post that when I am wrong I admit it. I have yet to see you or any of the others say that.

And when I tell you that you've made a good point, you won't say "Thank you." Just not in you to be loving to your fellow man--even those who are your fellow Christians.

 

[sentipente]

I have never said that. In fact, I explicitly noted in the previous post that when I am wrong I admit it. I have yet to see you or any of the others say that.

You won't because it is because we realized we were wong why we now believe as we do. None of your arguments are new to me, at least. I used to make them before.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

I never use Ellen White on any of the subjects you mentioned. In fact, she herself counsels against it. So, if you happen to run into one of these pink elephants on the far side of the moon you can tell them that they are doing it all wrong and have seriously misunderstood her.

Well actually most of your theology is based upon EGW you just won't admit it to yourself. This whole perfectionism thread is evidence enough of that. Besides your work at trying to prove that EGW did not plagiarize as much as some folks say. which is silly as you say some say that she took 80% and you are only finding that she took 3%. Did you ever ask yourself if that 3% really matters? Did you ever wonder why they stopped selling her book "sketches on the life of Paul ".

In any case I was not addressing you I was addressing the issue within the Adventist church of which you may or may not be representative of. But I do hope you will let us know when you have attained character perfection. though of course if you say you will never know when it is attained then why is it of the slightest importance to you to claim such character perfection is possible.

 

[StormyOne]

I have never said that. In fact, I explicitly noted in the previous post that when I am wrong I admit it. I have yet to see you or any of the others say that.

And when I tell you that you've made a good point, you won't say "Thank you." Just not in you to be loving to your fellow man--even those who are your fellow Christians.

Like I said DJ, have it your way... take care...

 

[djconklin]

"By their fruits ye shall know them."

 

[StormyOne]

"By their fruits ye shall know them."

Indeed... and again, have it your way DJ, take care....

 

[djconklin]

Indeed.

 

[djconklin]

from a previous post by Stormy: You are correct, it is something that God does in us, not something that we do in and of ourselves.

Excellant--well put!

however it is another text that we get twisted....

Unfortunately, then he undoes the good by making an unsubstantiated claim.

 

[djconklin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by djconklin
[/size]

I very clearly told you before verses 2 and 4 form an inclusio--do you know what that means?

Show us the extent of your vocabulary. Don't keep us waiting.

As I understood it you used to be a pastor (didn't you go to the seminary; or do you only have an undergrad training?)--so you should already know that it is a literary device, also known as an envelope structure. It brackets other material and repeats itself.

 

[djconklin]

If I'm not mistaken Adventtruth said he had commentaries on Levitiucs that would refute what I was saying. I'm still waiting for the citation(s).

 

[djconklin]

Oh I guess we are to take your own bias notes over the bible?

I forgot to add that in addition to not having any of my own ideas in the study--mostly it is puilled together from what others have said--there's a guy who is working on his doctorate on the book of Colossians and when he saw what I had he sent an email saying that he felt I was the only one who had it right.

The bad news then is that anyone of you could have found what I found.

 

[Adventtruth]

[/color][/b]

So I have been told by my bosses.

But I hope you would remain humble. Pride is a terible thing you know.

When I am I do.

Well Then you understand you never ever kept Gods law perfectly right? And it would be foolish to try to follow after it to perfrom it right? Are you then dead to it DJ?

Nope.

You are if you think you can become perfect by your perfromance.

Since I have overcome some sins since then that would be a lie. We are supposed to make progress in our Christian walk.

Oh so you are in denial. Just because you don't do some of the sinful things you use to do, you are better than you use to be? You think you are any better than the unbeliever because you have stopped doing some sinful things? Why do you make this about you DJ? Pride and arrogance are at your door DJ!

Have you not read the story about the publican and the poor sinner? In Gods eyes, your works are still as fithy rags. In Gods eyes your overcoming sin is in Jesus, not because you are any better at performance, and that even goes for doing it under the insperation of the Spirit....Christ died for you not the Holy Spirit, but because He has elected you in Christ! Your life is hidden in His, and God sees you as perfect that way, not in what you do!

And what is your progress for DJ...to prove to an unfallen universe that God is vindicated? NO! Jesus did that at the cross!

Its about the Name, Honor and Glory of God in all things to all nations. He will not let any one defame His glorious Honor DJ. Its all about God!

If you are in Christ you are perfect in God's eyes--no work involved.

we are in agreement here.

"never"? Who did that study? How large was the sample size? Were they really able to read hearts and minds? I doubt it. This is a bogus claim. The law spociifcally tells you to love God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. So, if you love Christ and are following Him then you will love and you will be obeying the law at the same time.

Are you obeying the law or Christ who supercedes the law. The ten commandments are silent to the righteous man being in Christ. The ten are a letter to be followed perfectly. Do you follow it perfectly? I think not...thats why it leads you to Christ!

You have an internal witness of the Spirit. Who can know the mind of the Spirit but the Spirit? He is in you by faith. When are you going to understand that you have died to the law in Christ? Are you married to another?

You have at least two false assumptions in there.

And what are they?

AT

 

[Adventtruth]

If I'm not mistaken Adventtruth said he had commentaries on Levitiucs that would refute what I was saying. I'm still waiting for the citation(s).

Well, I dont need to...you are claiming that the sabbath was not a feast day...the text clearly says they are. And if you would understand the different covenants you would understand the Sabbath pointed to and is fulfilled in Christ who fullfilled the whole law.

AT

 

[Adventtruth]

I forgot to add that in addition to not having any of my own ideas in the study--mostly it is puilled together from what others have said--there's a guy who is working on his doctorate on the book of Colossians and when he saw what I had he sent an email saying that he felt I was the only one who had it right. The bad news then is that anyone of you could have found what I found.

Oh thanks for clearing that up! So we are to take another persons bias towards your bias instead of the bible? No thanks!

AT