Pastor fails

[NannaNae]

You are in a church with a pastor who has been at the helm,with solid growth/outreach for about a decade now. Two months ago he tendered his resignation and a board member received it before the congregation after an abbreviated sermon.

well I have a warning
wolfs protect wolves....wolves loves wolves and honor wolves ..
or at least turn their eyes away from them so as "to not judge" because they didn't want to get caught either. and wives of wolves are used to wolves and used to turning their eyes away .

watch your youth program closely.
there will be wolves in sheep clothing.
it is all about spiritual coverings and other authority issues. and the back door has been left open !

 

[phydaux]

Calvary Chapel is non-denominational, but we joke that we're the worlds largest NON-denomination.

Hmmm. That wouldn't seem to be correct on either count.

Yeah, what do you call it when you start with a nice little non-denominational church of 25 people meeting in someone living room, and then 30 years later you have 300+ daughter churches all across the globe, many with congregations in the thousands?

 

[iambren]

Albion, there is no problem or question to answer here. The thrust of my wondering was what methods to deal with these kind of situations is best. Is the congregation told? to what degree? How to handle the people involved,whether they should attend/ how can it be prevented? and what's best procedurally so the church can move on in a healthy way?

 

[Albion]

Albion, there is no problem or question to answer here. The thrust of my wondering was what methods to deal with these kind of situations is best. Is the congregation told? to what degree? How to handle the people involved,whether they should attend/ how can it be prevented? and what's best procedurally so the church can move on in a healthy way?

Well, those seem like questions to me, but in any case, I'm of the mind that as little as possible should be made of it so long as the damage has been corrected.

Because the pastor has resigned, made it public to the congregation, went through channels (if that's what handing a letter to a board member during the service amounts to), left the church along with the women involved (as I get it), and has not become a pastor elsewhere, I'd say that the situation doesn't need further tweaking. To say, if asked by congregants, that the pastor decided that he wasn't up to the expectations of the congregation and so decided it would be best for everyone that he resign should be adequate.

Of course, that all could be undermined if things change, such as if he seeks to return to the congregation. Usually, that doesn't happen, however, because it's an invitation to reopen a distasteful episode in that person's life that he'd rather leave alone.

I'm sure you'll hear a lot of different "takes" on the matter, but that's mine.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Renee Arisen]

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[Alithis]

I was attending and preparing to become a member of a certain Baptist church. The pastor was absolutely phenomenal, very grounded in the Scriptures, very learned, very gifted musically and everybody loved and respected him. He had been there for 6 years when I started to attend. I believed I had finally found my home church and I was delighted.

But, apparently the pastor had a hidden problem -- one he brought with him when they hired him which the vetting process did not reveal. And, no one suspected. Not for all those 6 years. Or that anyone talked about.

At some point in time, the elders began to monitor the computers in the church, unbeknownst to him. They caught him red-handed viewing porn on the church computers. He didn't have a computer at home for that very reason. I am not sure how he explained not having a computer at home.

Once discovered, the leadership let him stay on as pastor until they were past the annual Christmas production. He was a major player in it. Great bass voice -- opera quality. After the Christmas celebration was behind them, the pastor announced his resignation (forced to by the leadership). He explained to the congregation why he was resigning. He told them that he was addicted to porn. Everyone was stunned and devastated. Devastated.

Because they were trying to be "loving" (since Baptists are accused of being legalistic) they let him and his family remain in the congregation. Not only was he a beloved part of the church family, but he and his wife had a 20 year old son who was a mongoloid and challenged. It seemed heartless to the congregation to toss the family to the wolves out in the street. They hoped to rehabilitate the former pastor. To them it seemed like the Christian thing to do. They were family. He was in trouble.

But, he lost his pastorate and income -- and became a tour guide on a tour boat. After years and years of working to put him through school, his wife had finally retired (and she was tired). But, this new predicament forced her to go back to work and take lesser jobs. She found herself working at night and their life became complicated and difficult.

Staying in the church seemed to help him become broken about it all. So I heard. I don't know for sure because I left. The associate pastor was also fired because they determined he was not qualified. I don't know what happened there, but he had been in his position for some time. So the youth pastor took over. But, then the whole church seemed to implode because they decided to remove hymns, stop Bible studies and Sunday night services and they went very liberal.

I had only been attending a few months when all this happened, so I was not involved or committed emotionally. However, I searched the Scriptures about it all and determined that church discipline required that the pastor (and family) be put out of fellowship. He never would have acknowledged his sin or repented on his own. It was ONLY because he was caught.

No church can stand for long -- and surely its lampstand will be removed -- if it is not grounded upon the Scriptures. Jesus wants a pure bride. And, pastors and teachers will be held to a stricter account.

Many women of the congregation remarked to me that after all that information came out, they felt very uncomfortable around the former pastor. He had been a literal wolf in sheep's clothing.

I personally felt betrayed at a very core level. I was offended that he carried on that charade for so long and played the role of such a wonderful Christian family man and pastor, leading us in Holy communion. He was the consummate hypocrite and liar. He defiled the office of the pastorate and the church and betrayed the sheep.

I could not look at him anymore. I couldn't understand how his wife did not know, or if she did why she did nothing. The entire affair was tragic in so many ways.

if i may address a couple of issues here that stand out to me ..
hope the op is ok with it ..it is in the vein of the topic of "how do we deal with situations "

one thing that stands out the most is the "imploding" of the congregation , this is to me simply evidence of where they sourced their strength from and is an issue in far to many western churches ..if each has their foundation in the lord .. these things will have little effect on them ,storms do not shake houses built on the rock ..only houses built on sand crash down in a crisis.

The second issue that i question is the term "wolf' in sheep's clothing
I feel there is no evidence to reach so harsh a conclusion .
wolves in sheep's clothing are not Christians who struggle with repetitive imprisoning sin..(which the lord can does and has set us free from) but are people who "lead" by subterfuge and flattery ,others into error ,traps and sin .this pastor needed to seek God in regard to his sin .and get it dealt with in the heart and enter into a position ,by gods grace of overcoming it .
it is for this reason ..that he ,in all probability ,had been given many opportunity to do so by God but had continued in it and to keep it secret (usally the secrecy is a sign only of his shame ...hes not proud of it -that in itself is a good sign because he was not seared of conscience ) was then exposed by God ..because God loves him and is wiling to ruin a man yet save his soul if that's what it takes .. stepping down from leadership is correct but if his calling was of God in the first place God is able to raise him up again to it ..but that's in the lords hands .
but the evidence shows he was not a wolf in sheep's clothing but a man ,,who struggled with unrepentant in sexual lust ..a man whom God loved so much he died on a cross to save him ...

before we cast off such a person we must do as the lord did for us all , whatever we can to see him reconciled to God and busy serving the lord joyously again ..even if it be not a pastoral role .

how do we deal with such situations ...
openly honestly truthfully and LOVINGLY ..knowing truth may hurt in the discovery of it ..but only ever sets free ...

half truths ,cover ups,ambiguity only leads to prolonged hurt and much damage along the way binding people up in bitterness which defiles many .

and remember , before any one judges a man for struggles with lust ... think next time you pick up a car magazine or a home and garden magazine and covet what you see with your eyes ... after all ,it is also written -"thou shalt not covet "...yet some how ,insidiously ,western society has glossed that sin over as acceptable .... interesting isn't it

 

[Renee Arisen]

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[Alithis]

Alithist, (does it have a "t" at the end?)

I appreciate your discussing this troubling situation with me.

I referred to the former pastor as a "wolf in sheep's clothing" not so much that he was ravishing the flock, but because he was not what he pretended to be.

Hypocrisy in the pulpit is not OK, no matter what is happening in the culture. I am too well aware of our pornographic culture. But, all the more compelling a reason for purity in the pulpit.

I see that you are from New Zealand (I love the pictures of NZ!); and, I don't know your culture. But, here in supposed "Christian" America, we have become the exporters of porn. Our fore-fathers are no doubt turning in their graves.

The world was very decadent when the Church began. It survived, and it survived because it was radically different from the culture. When churches become like the world, they lose their lampstand. Not my words. Jesus said that.

I agree that the solution to these sins is sunlight. That is why I had an issue with them, especially his wife who MUST have known. If my husband was a pastor and involved in that, I would have busted him before the church did it. She protected him. She valued him in some way above the church he was serving and above God.

He dishonored the pulpit, his calling, the office of the pastorate, the church and God. That is not "judging" -- that is just a statement of fact. We need to stop being so tolerant to the point where we white-wash sin.

I had a problem with the church because it appeared that they loved this man above God's Word. Whenever we love something above God, that is idolatry and we are heading for trouble. And as you pointed out, God will have to deal with it.

As for the church imploding -- apparently it was rotten at the core and this cascade of events just exposed the corruption -- like when a house crumbles in from termite damage.

hi - my present name change ..there is no T on the end ..its Alithis (pronounced "Ar lith eese ) its greek for true /truthful the "T" in red is because im a trainee moderator on CF

on the point of the church imploding ..yep that's pretty much the same point i was alluding to .. congregations, which have, over time, become spiritually lackadaisical ( Lacking spirit, liveliness, or interest; languid) in the will of God often open themselves for unproven or unseasoned people taking the pulpit based on carnal ability or carnal choice and yeah they do lay the foundation for the problem .
on the point of wolves in sheep's clothing.. yes ,apologies ,sometime i begin by replying to a particular post and branch off into addressing other posts in the thread at the same time ..yours was not the only reference to wolves .
i think your right though that hypocrisy would be the correct term because to preach as if you are victorious while not actually living that victory is indeed a pretense and a very damaging one when those that do struggle find out .

on the point of his wife knowing ..actually its easy not to know ..or to have known but believe its dealt with and not realize the partner has fallen again because he/she is hiding it .same as gambling addiction or drugs -he had no computer at home... so he was doing his best ,on an intellectual level ,to avoid the temptation -but that never works for long , self effort of the sinful flesh to overcome the sins of the flesh is like fighting an enemy while holding your sword at the pointy end .

on the point of Tiny NZ ..- geographically speaking , one of the most beautiful places any where .
spiritual history .. -one of the highest percentage of missionaries sent out per head of population i'm sure ...
present spiritual status ..- as worldly as it gets ,liberal to a horror and desperately in need of salvation .

 

[Renee Arisen]

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[Alithis]

Hi Alithis

Thanks for explaining about your name. I thought that word looked familiar. Great choice! I didn't know about "being in training"...does that take long & what's involved? Well, I guess that is premature -- I have only been here since this month. But, I am interested. How do I find out about it?

On the implosion topic and carnality in the church -- well, IMHO that is the ubiquitous status of Christianity in the church today in America. Not every church, but it is extremely materialistic here. Covetousness is king and sexual immorality rampant. Reminds me of early Rome -- not in its prime, but at the beginning of its demise.

For this situation to happen in a church which looked so good only further confirmed my concerns. It was such a grief of heart to see a man SO GIFTED to fall so horribly. And, that Satan took another one down. I pray that God may use it for all His glory and give Satan a major black eye for his trouble.

When the church rallied around the pastor and his family, I thought they were more spiritual than me for embracing him. But, when the church went belly-up so fast, it seems that there was a lot rotten in Denmark.

You are right about the wife. Spouses can develop some serious blinders just in denial and survival "malignant optimism." Lesson: When we let the darkness in, it starts to take over everything and soon we can't find our way.

That being said, what about their prayer life as a minister and a woman of God??? Hypocrisy before man is one thing. But, in our intimacy with God, as ministers, leading the flock...??? I am not judging so much as -- can I say -- terrified?

Anyway, Keith Moore once made a statement which I thought was very profound..."your humility is your protection against deception."

Moving on a bit

-- that is very interesting and so sad about New Zealand. Are you from there or just live there? Whenever I see pictures of NZ I am enthralled with its incredible rugged and exotic beauty. It makes me want to move there; the landscape is simply breathtakingly beautiful. To hear of its "horrific liberality" is very, very sad. But, I am thinking that God sent Scotland John Knox. It is not over until its over.

Shalom

you can see the info about moderator applications here ... scroll down a bit to find how to appyl there are the basic requirements to cover first .. stay interested though

well if there is any question about the state of NZ ..which is a cross between England Sweden and america in over all modernistic culture ... we have churches with gay ministers and gay marriage was voted in ..
though like most democracies today that doesn't mean the people wanted it ,just that there are politicians who vote as dictated to by the UN and have no interest in what the people think other then telling them what to think . lol.
ugh in the visions of Marietta Davis the angel refers to the world as the "forlorn race of men "..good book btw .

back on topic . i think an error is when people find their worth via ministry ..if they are perceived to be ministers then it gives them self worth and to gain that self worth they study to be out into positions behind pulpits while knowing they have undealt with sin issues .. they should not even approach such positions while thy know it to be the case .
we must trust God that he sees worth in us and trust him, that whether behind the pulpit for the largest congregation on earth or utterly unknown in a tin lean-to in India ,praying .. he is able to use us mightily .our worth in the heavens is not ever dependent upon our earthly status .

also in the west we have this democratic process ..and we impose it over the rule of the Holy Spirit .. and the result .. well that's obvious in all the disasters we keep witnessing to the churches shame .

 

[psalms 91]

Accept the resignation and (depending upon the requirements of the denomination) establish a search committee to find a new pastor. Meanwhile, seek the services of a temporary pastor--a retired minister perhaps.

Are we missing something in this?

I think what is missing is the steps of repentance forgiveness and restoration. To many times we try to hold someones past over them. I hate to break it to you but the most broken among us is the ones God will use to confound the wise. It is up to us to keep our attitude one of humbleness and realize that that could be us and for that matter what hidden sins are in our own lives

 

[Renee Arisen]

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[Alithis]

lol hey dont knock coming here ... as a place to visit its great fun and the folks are friendly .. and hey there is only 4.2 million of us ..in the entire country haha

 

[Albion]

I think what is missing is the steps of repentance forgiveness and restoration.

That's because nothing was said about it in the OP. That's what you are quoting--my reply to the OP.

Presumably, the former pastor did not remain a member of the congregation, but in a later post it was hinted that he had done just that.

 

[Alithis]

theres a huge difference between when some one comes to their support team in tears and need, seeking repentance because they made a bad choice and messed up ...... for that scenario we need to fully support and pray and deliver and heal and restore .

then there is a whole other scenario where ..they got caught .. which means had they not got caught out would they have repented ..?

 

[iambren]

I haven't commented on this thread in a while. Our former pastor was having a 2-year affair with another female member. Her husband is a handsome,ex-military ,personable guy and they have 3 or 4 daughters all who came to church last week.

The board asked for his resignation which he announced in front of the church without repentance and no repentance to the board was given. So he's gone with part of the church knowing WHY and others not knowing.

My enquiry was simply asking for a protocol if the whole church be told (minus gory details) or just announce an uninformed resignation. I can tell you this is all a big shock to me;all the families involved that I know. The amount of pastors out there that fall into sexual sin (and it's SO difficult for them to be re-invited back to ministry positions) are we doing something wrong in our expectations of pastors,their workload their exposure/accountability to compromising relationships?

 

[Renee Arisen]

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[Albion]

Hi, Iambren.

FWIW, and with your recent clarification, I am more confident than ever that the resignation should just be accepted and the gory details not discussed. To say that he had come to the conclusion that he was not up to being a pastor or had personal issues is good enough. All that can be accomplished by ventilating the specifics is to hurt that family, and it is completely innocent in all of this.

 

[iambren]

Well Albion, I have to report that the church has taken it in stride and I've heard no tittering groups of gossip. I don't know if people have known for a while and it's old knews, or they simply don't know (I didn't).

The factor that swings it for me is if a church is living out a true community lifestyle. In that close of relating the body should know. But if it's a rather large church then it's better to deal with things rather superficially.

 

[phydaux]

I remember when I was a young minister in training (a phase I never progressed past). I and my fellows where given two examples.

One was Billy Graham. Billy Graham made it his habit to never enter an elevator alone. The idea was that he could enter the elevator, a few floors later a woman might enter the elevator, they exit together in the lobby, and the news day the headlines read "Billy Graham seen in hotel with strange woman."

Another example we were taught was if we were driving and we saw a female friend broken down on the side of the road, then the best thing we could do would be to keep driving. Once we got home then we could get our wife and return together, or call the friend's husband and tell him where his wife was. But if we stopped to help, then someone else driving past would just see us with a woman who wasn't our wife.