Passover For Christians

[Minister Monardo]

Passover Seder plate - Wikipedia

Why do you call it a hexagonal plate, and why is that divisive?

 

[Der Alte]

I would run from a synagogue that twisted YHWH's appointments into a celebration of honoring themselves. Most Messianics have no "Jewish" (whatever that means) heritage in my experience.

Excessively judgmental about something you know so little about. Guess you didn't really read what I posted. The man I spoke was born into and raised in a Jewish family. He remained a Jew and became a messianic Jew as an adult but still observed all the OT fests, festivals etc. with the realization that it was not for gaining or maintaining salvation. They were still honoring God.

 

[Der Alte]

I once attended a public passover hosted by a local messianic congregation. It a wonderful experience.

They believed the tradition of the afikomen was created by the first Jewish Christians and that it represented Jesus, whose body was broken (the afikomen is broken), wrapped in linen, (it's wrapped), buried (it's hidden), and raised (it's found and rewarded with a treat).

Thanks. I just learned something I did not know.

 

[HARK!]

You are confusing the Torah for "foreigners who are visiting Israel with strangers who dwelt
among them. Strangers and servants who were circumcised could eat the Passover.
Exodus 12:
43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the Passover:
No foreigner shall eat it.
44 But every man’s servant who is bought for money, when you have circumcised him,
then he may eat it.
45 A sojourner and a hired servant shall not eat it.
46 In one house it shall be eaten; you shall not carry any of the flesh outside the house,
nor shall you break one of its bones.
47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.
48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord,
let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall
be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it.
49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.

he shall
be as a native of the land

One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian (this means forever) statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

This one was instituted right after YHWH declared passover and unleavened bread:

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

You see that the Gentiles who partook of the Passover became fellow citizens of Israel.



(CLV) Eph 2:11
Wherefore, remember that once (not anymore!) you, the nations [Ger] (Gentiles, not anymore!) in flesh—who are termed "Uncircumcision" by those termed "Circumcision," in flesh, made by hands—

(CLV) Eph 2:12
that you were (not anymore!), in that era, apart from Christ,(not anymore!) being alienated [Ger]from the citizenship of Israel, (not anymore!) and guests of the promise covenants, (not anymore!) having no expectation, (not anymore!) and without God in the world. (not anymore!)

(CLV) Eph 2:19
Consequently, then, not longer are you guests [Ger Toshav] and sojourners [Ger], (not anymore!)but are fellow-citizens (ISRAEL)of the saints and belong to God's family,

 

[Minister Monardo]

Thanks. I just learned something I did not know.

Yeshua's body was NOT broken.
John 19:
31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. 33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. 36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, “Not one of His bones shall be broken.” 37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”

 

[Minister Monardo]

Gentiles were never permitted to partake of the Pesach, circumcised or not.

Gentiles who lived among the people in the land and were circumcised could partake,
per the Torah.

 

[HARK!]

Excessively judgmental about something you know so little about. Guess you didn't really read what I posted. The man I spoke was born into and raised in a Jewish family. He remained a Jew and became a messianic Jew as an adult but still observed all the OT fests, festivals etc. with the realization that it was not for gaining or maintaining salvation. They were still honoring God.

I don't recall you saying anything about salvation. Perhaps it is you who should read what you wrote.

(CLV) Ex 12:15
Seven days shall you eat unleavened bread. Yea, on the first day you shall eradicate yeast from your houses; for anyone eating what is leavened, from the first day unto the seventh day, that soul will be cut off from Israel.

Were those who were cut off saved?

 

[Der Alte]

Yeshua's body was NOT broken.
John 19:
31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. 33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. 36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, “Not one of His bones shall be broken.” 37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”

Missed that about the bread but Jesus IS the bread of life.

 

[HARK!]

Gentiles who lived among the people in the land and were circumcised could partake,
per the Torah.

See Post #24.

 

[Minister Monardo]

I once attended a public passover hosted by a local messianic congregation. It a wonderful experience.

They believed the tradition of the afikomen was created by the first Jewish Christians and that it represented Jesus, whose body was broken (the afikomen is broken), wrapped in linen, (it's wrapped), buried (it's hidden), and raised (it's found and rewarded with a treat).

Hi Chet. I apologize for responding to your post indirectly to Der Alt.
Here is what I posted:
Yeshua's body was NOT broken.
John 19:
31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. 33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. 36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, “Not one of His bones shall be broken.” 37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”

 

[Der Alte]

I don't recall you saying anything about salvation. Perhaps it is you who should read what you wrote.
(CLV) Ex 12:15
Seven days shall you eat unleavened bread. Yea, ion the first day you shall eradicate yeast from your houses; for anyone eating what is leavened, from the first day unto the seventh day, that soul will be cut off from Israel.
Were those who were cut off saved?

If I didn't mention salvation, which I did in the second post, why did you mention it? How is Ex 12:15 relevant to my posts.

 

[ChetSinger]

Yeshua's body was NOT broken.
John 19:
31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. 33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. 36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, “Not one of His bones shall be broken.” 37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”

Sorry, I didn't intend the word "broken" to be read so precisely. They believed the breaking of the afikomen represented the death of Jesus on the cross, that's all.

EDIT: Oops, sorry again, I didn't catch your response in post #30.

 

[klutedavid]

Gentiles were never permitted to partake of the Pesach, circumcised or not.

This is a tricky thing to understand.

There are two distinct groups of Gentiles that the law deals with.

Gentiles living in Israel and Gentiles foreigner to the land of Israel.

Exodus 12:48
But if a stranger resides with you and celebrates the Passover to the LORD, all of his males are to be circumcised, and then he shall come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised male may eat it.

The Gentile living in Israel can celebrate the Passover if circumcised.

But a foreigner cannot partake of the Passover.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Gentiles were never permitted to partake of the Pesach, circumcised or not.

What did you mean by this statement, and how does post 24 clarify anything.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Sorry, I didn't intend the word "broken" to be read so precisely. They believed the breaking of the afikomen represented the death of Jesus on the cross, that's all.

That's fine. I just wanted to bring out the prophetic significance made in John 19. No bones
of the Passover lamb could be broken. Yours was an interesting and informative post. thanks

 

[HARK!]

If I didn't mention salvation, which I did in the second post, why did you mention it? How is Ex 12:15 relevant to my posts.

I wasn't responding to your second post. Can we try to follow the conversation here? You brought up the subject of salvation in your response to my response to your initial post. Therefore, since you opened the door; I asked the question. If you don't know the answer; that's OK.

 

[HARK!]

What did you mean by this statement, and how does post 24 clarify anything.

Once you are a fellow citizen of Israel; you are no longer a Goy.

 

[Minister Monardo]

You see that the Gentiles who partook of the Passover became fellow citizens of Israel.

There was a path for a Gentile to partake in the Passover by the Law. That is all I said.

 

[HARK!]

This is a tricky thing to understand.

There are two distinct groups of Gentiles that the law deals with.

Gentiles living in Israel and Gentiles foreigner to the land of Israel.

Exodus 12:48
But if a stranger resides with you and celebrates the Passover to the LORD, all of his males are to be circumcised, and then he shall come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised male may eat it.

The Gentile living in Israel can celebrate the Passover if circumcised.

But a foreigner cannot partake of the Passover.

This should help you to understand the difference: Conversion to Judaism - Wikipedia

The Ger Tzedek has sealed his faith.

 

[HARK!]

There was a path for a Gentile to partake in the Passover by the Law. That is all I said.

It's erroneous in that, once he takes that path he is a fellow citizen of Israel.