Partial grieving

[iambren]

Hey, new kid here. I'll be brief. Wife and I divorced a few months ago, 2 kids, seperated 1-2 years. Love her--yes. But she continually rejected me sexually/emotionally so I bailed.

I'm into the whole grieving process,day at a time, when guess who steps into my life? An old clasmate, a widow, a very "willing" widow. She has made her availability known and as deprived as I am for so long it's VERY tempting.

Questions: My dr said don't see her cuz it will interupt my grieving, why is that bad? What happens to you when you don't grieve all the way?

 

[5kidsdad]

I don't know exactly what to tell you. I am still in the process of divorce. I understand the being in love part. My opinion is that there has to be a complete healing of your heart and mind before you can move on. Mind you, I am still in the processes now. I also have 5 kids, the youngest of which is 4. Yes, I look forward to the day when I can date again, but I realize that it might be a while. I am in no way ready for that now, I'm still married. I don't see myself ready anytime soon, either. I want to be sure that I have healed and talked with my pastor, and I am ready to be the best person I can for whoever the Lord might send my way. I also want to concentrate on being a good father. I know in my own case, I have days where I am having an attitude attack, mad, sad, angry, etc. I am not the best person to be around. Healing, grieving, etc. takes time, and I'm not there yet. I wouldn't be good company for someone at this point. Again, this is my opinion only, and might not be your answer. Prayer and fasting is always a good thing to do in a case like this.

God bless,

5kidsdad

 

[iambren]

I feel for you man, 5 kids! Would tear my heart out. I'm curious what could be so bad that you both divorced but I don't mean to pry.
My question is more of a psychological one. I've heard the conventional wisdom to wait but what if you don't wait? What happens to the soul? Is the way to grieve to get another? Just figurin'.

 

[FaithfulWife]

Hi iambren! Welcome to Divorcing/Divorced!

Before we even get started, I have a few things I'd like to say. I'd like you to know that most of the opinions I give you are going to be christian and based on what I believe the bible tells us to do. I'm not going to at you because that just shuts people down, but it won't just be a "you're okay" hugfest either, okay? Next, I personally believe in not judging people because that is not my job. That is G-d's job and I would not DREAM of presuming to step in on Him! So the way I see it, we have ALL sinned. Now some folks see "divorce" as the world's biggest sin--or "adultery" but I see it as a sin like any other sin and that is a behavior that displeases G-d. Lying to get a cookie just does not destroy lives like adultery does! So just so you get a feel for where I'm coming from, I'm not going to tell you that you should have done THIS or should not have done THAT because I wasn't there and I can not judge. Okay?

Now that we have that clear, let me just say that I notice you are not in your early twenty's so I am going to assume that you have a little bit of wisdom just from living here on this earth for a while. I'm also going to assume that you are a Christian and do want to live a life that is pleasing to the Lord. That being said, you ask:

I'm into the whole grieving process,day at a time, when guess who steps into my life? An old clasmate, a widow, a very "willing" widow. She has made her availability known and as deprived as I am for so long it's VERY tempting.

Dear brother, this one is easy. Col. 3:23 tells us: "Whatsoever you do, do it heartily as to the Lord, and not unto men." I do understand that not having sex for a long time is enough to drive a person just MAD and that when it is offered after a long "dry spell" it is like dangling food in front of a starving person. I speak from experience. But when G-d created sex for us, it was meant as a gift between committed people to bind them as one before the Lord. In a normal way of talking about it, yes, sex is a physical need and pleasure but it does have a spiritual element. So you are single and not legally bound to any one person right now--but just think of this: as you are having sex with this "willing widow" would you want G-d standing there joining into that union? Would you be able to have sex heartily as to the Lord? I know it's sort of a freaky concept but when you are married and honor your covenant and vow by having sex, you CAN have wonderful, crazy, fulfilling, toe-curling sex as to the Lord because He created it to be that way! The point is to obey G-d and do what HE wants, whether it's easy or not.

So I would just suggest that you think on these things. I do get it--it IS not just tempting, it is ENORMOUSLY tempting! I Cor. 10:13 tells us: "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it."

Next you asked:

Questions: My dr said don't see her cuz it will interrupt my grieving, why is that bad? What happens to you when you don't grieve all the way?

I'm assuming by "my dr." that you mean like a counselor or therapist or maybe a GP who is a friend who also give you good advice--that kind of thing. Is that correct? This is actually a really good question!

I know everyone has heard of "the five stages of grief" and thinks that it's always like that, and we go in order, etc. but in real life and from my own experience I have to say I disagree. It's kind of a good model though! I think you'd understand the part about the shock--that part where you first hear about it and you feel a zillion feelings at once but also sort of feel like a zombie. Maybe that part was during your marriage when your heart finally disengaged so much that you were just numb! And I bet you know about the "it hurts so bad you can't stand it" stage. Maybe this happened at the very end of your marriage and parts of it were also like as the divorce was being filed and finalized. It's the part where your heart has been shot out by a shotgun. Okay so a next common phase is the reminiscing phase, and I usually see this one go one of two ways--either you look back and go through old photos and think "We used to be so happy" or you look back and think"Wow I never was happy for like thirty years!" Obviously memories can be tainted but I'm just saying that there's a point at which you sort of look back and try to relive some of that. Maybe what you're doing NOW is going back to relive the good love and sex you THOUGHT you should have had all your life.

The final parts of the grieving have to do with your becoming disentangled from your former spouse and your old marriage and sort of changing their role to "past relationship." This part can go back and forth for a bit because when you're with someone for a lot of years, there are things that keep you entangled with them like kids, child support, birthdays, even sometimes possessions! And this part needs to be all the way worked through or what happens is that you haven't really finished #1 and you rush headlong into attempt #2. You give #2 maybe some of the parts that aren't entangled but you aren't all the way free and you aren't finished, and you end up 1/3 invested in "past relationship" and 2/3 invested in "current attempt" and NONE of them work! Then you end up with TWO relationships that fail! And at least in my experience, I've seen a lot of people get sort of STUCK here because they never quite take the time to complete the process and be fully disentangled and fully reinvested in themselves and their new life.

Sooo...does that make sense? If you do jump in now with "willing widow" you may temporarily get some physical needs met (this is true) but it would not be honoring to G-d and you would be partly invested in your past ties, partly invested in some ties to "willing widow", not completely, fully invested in yourself and your new life, and it will most likely all come crashing to the ground like a house built on the sand. I do understand that waiting and not having those urges met is crazy-making, but I would strongly encourage you to take the time now to get yourself and your life straightened and finalized. Take the time to focus on pleasing G-d and being the man He created you to be.



~Faithful

 

[ShainaBrina]

Entering into a relationship while you are still grieving the last one mean that you will be seeing her mainly to get your own needs met. Using someone else to end your hurting is not fair to her.

Take time to allow God to heal you properly.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Entering into a new relationship when you are grieving the last one will help you get over the last one faster and therefore probably cost your dr. a pretty penny. If you care anything about your doctor making the next boat payment on time don't, go for it.

 

[5kidsdad]

I feel for you man, 5 kids! Would tear my heart out. I'm curious what could be so bad that you both divorced but I don't mean to pry.
My question is more of a psychological one. I've heard the conventional wisdom to wait but what if you don't wait? What happens to the soul? Is the way to grieve to get another? Just figurin'.

Her adultry, then lying about it when I confronted her about it with the evidence. I have no tolerance for infidelity. I have had too much experience with cheating girlfriends when I was much younger...though not adultery. If you can't be faithful, and live up to the vow you took before God, then I want nothing to do with you. No need to worry about prying, it's known on this site from my prior posts. Throw on top her inability to be a good mom, and provide a set place for them to live, not bouncing back and forth from house to house, and her constant lying, even on her court documents, I am frustrated, mad, and sick of getting taken advantage of. I feel like there is no justice for a man who is trying to be a good father, and trying to raise his kids the right way. I just am frustrated...Sorry...didn't mean to get so rilled up on the post...

5kidsdad

 

[iambren]

Wow, 5kidsdad,thanks for sharing and I have already prayed for you,your heart, and your family. She sounds like someone with a character disorder that becomes almost impossible to deal with.
I personally don't believe an affair MUST end a marriage but is usually an expression of the marriage as a whole. Thanks for your response.

 

[iambren]

WOW, what words. It is rare that I see the full integration of speaking truth in love. I will take your advise seriously. I have already thrown a few cups of cold water to dampen the sizzle in this woman and she has respected my stand. On some cold lonely nights coming when she's a cellphone call a way will be tough. I'm no good single; I pray that God would heal my ex, or heal me soon to get on with life.
Thanks to all who commented, especially about using people.

 

[ido]

WOW, what words. It is rare that I see the full integration of speaking truth in love. I will take your advise seriously. I have already thrown a few cups of cold water to dampen the sizzle in this woman and she has respected my stand. On some cold lonely nights coming when she's a cellphone call a way will be tough. I'm no good single; I pray that God would heal my ex, or heal me soon to get on with life.
Thanks to all who commented, especially about using people.

The part I bolded. I think it's imperative to learn to be good at being single. That doesn't mean you have to like it/desire it - but you do have to learn to be content with it, IMO. It's key in helping prepare us for a healthy relationship.

 

[5kidsdad]

I think it's imperative to learn to be good at being single. That doesn't mean you have to like it/desire it - but you do have to learn to be content with it, IMO. It's key in helping prepare us for a healthy relationship.

I am struggling with this as well. I HAATTEE being alone. I never liked eating out alone, never liked doing things by myself, etc. I am liking the single dad thing, though...well, getting used to it. I did it quite a bit when we were together, so now I am doing it, but without her now. My kids are great with me when we are out, so that is cool. I don't like being alone, but realize that it is only a temporary situation for now. Whether it is another woman, or my 5 kids on a permanent basis, I won't be alone forever.

5kd

 

[ido]

Yeah - I don't necessarily like being alone. I guess a better way to say it is that I would rather be single than be in a relationship with the wrong person just so I'm not alone. I can be alone without being lonely - although being alone does get lonely sometimes.

 

[catlover]

Yeah - I don't necessarily like being alone. I guess a better way to say it is that I would rather be single than be in a relationship with the wrong person just so I'm not alone. I can be alone without being lonely - although being alone does get lonely sometimes.

Yes...I am in a relationship now and wonder if I am calling it too close...I was separated for a year, giving him a chance to work out his problems and making sure it was not done out anger...

So...it's weird to be with another person, it makes the last two years almost not real, but it was.

 

[iambren]

So far I have kept this woman back to an "email" relationship/friendship. She has talked pretty sexual though. Besides the pain in my stomach over missing my ex, and wondering if she loved me in the way I thought, there are still those moments during the week that I would love to be curled up naked with a woman I cared about. I know that's graphic it's where my love language is. I don't love this gal, I have declared my feelings but it's like she is lonely enough to not care. Life would be sooo much simpler if my ex (who says she still loves me) would get a clue. Yet, here I am again--let it go,letit go.

 

[MyKidsDaddy]

FW,
Thanks for the insight. I'm not sure which stage of grieving I'm going through...but throwing in the towel is so tempting. I'm beginning to recognize the things that I did which added to the breakdown of our marriage. I'm struggling with forgiving "70 x 7 times" vs "if they will not listen to the Word of God...then shake the dust from your sandals and move on" oe "do yoke yourself to an unbeliever". She was a believer at one time...i think of her more as a prodigal daughter now. She's lost but does not realize it.

 

[FaithfulWife]

For me it was rather easy--my ex-hubby was Jewish and not Messianic in any way, so he was not a believer. But my current dear hubby went through some of what you're going through because there was a time when he thought his ex-wife was a believer and not just a Christian by denomination.

In real life we aren't here on this earth to judge people, and we surely can not tell if they have a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. And from my own life, I do realize that people backslide! But I also think that when someone has become a Christian, usually their life shows SOME fruits of the holy spirit. I can testify that I married a non-believer so obviously I didn't always do G-d's will in my life--but even when I was backsliding I did still have some behavior that indicated G-d was still with me even if I was not heading toward HIM.

In my dear hubby's case, it seemed from the best of his discernment as if when he thought she was a believer, she was just saying what she thought he wanted to hear--and that the way she was behaving was her being her "real self" and not the other way around. In my case, I did disobey the Lord for a while but felt badly the whole time and guilty--and when my ex-hubby left I returned to the "real me" because I was truly a believer.

So I hope that makes sense. Sometimes you just can't tell. Sometimes people go through really bad issues in their life or do something REALLY DUMB for a couple years and then return to their right mind and come back to themselves. Personally, since marriage is a lifetime commitment...say from the ages of 20yo to 90yo or 70 years or more...I would say 2 years is reasonable to wait for a 70 year commitment wouldn't you? People just lose it sometimes! After a couple years like that, if they are showing no signs of returning to their right mind, I'd say they're gone and returning to their "true self" which is most likely not a believer if they are continuing in sin.

* sigh * I think a group hug is needed!

 

[5kidsdad]

Can someone please explain this one to me....how can a woman, who has been a Christian all her life, fell into sin in her early 20's, came back to God, married, then 15 years later fell back into the pattern that she was in in her early 20's, including lying, sexual sins, and deception, all the while having 5 kids to look after, and blames the husband for all of it? Just curious...

5kd

 

[iambren]

Can someone please explain this one to me....how can a woman, who has been a Christian all her life, fell into sin in her early 20's, came back to God, married, then 15 years later fell back into the pattern that she was in in her early 20's, including lying, sexual sins, and deception, all the while having 5 kids to look after, and blames the husband for all of it? Just curious...

5kd

Come on now! Were you married to my wife? I swear your wife sounds like an identical twin to my ex. A possible clue is to look up character pathology. It is hard for me to grieve over someone who never even existed! She waws in Christian ministry, fulltime on staff at church, reached out to teens, Christian home, loved me. Post -wedding became untouchable,rules didn't apply to her,prideful, hated me (long hubby-is-bad speeches). Emotionally abused after 15 years it would take a LOT to take me back to her, an epiphany? I've asked "How can the HS truly be living in this person" behind a wall of conventionality?
It's true, who can 100% guess someone's spirituality? We are left to make decisions the best we can. In marriage this discerning is a big deal. Paul in Corinth. talks of the shame of becoming one with prostitute ie how can the body of the HS become one with them. Well I want to become one with a Christian!!!
One other thing re grieving. This is an alternate stage of grieving to the traditional Kubler-Ross model. Maybe it will be helpful.........


I like this grieving model
1) acknowledge the loss
2) feel the impact
3) acquire temporary substitutes
4) detach from the relationship
5) reconstruct a new life.

 

[5kidsdad]

Come on now! Were you married to my wife? I swear your wife sounds like an identical twin to my ex. A possible clue is to look up character pathology. It is hard for me to grieve over someone who never even existed! She waws in Christian ministry, fulltime on staff at church, reached out to teens, Christian home, loved me. Post -wedding became untouchable,rules didn't apply to her,prideful, hated me (long hubby-is-bad speeches). Emotionally abused after 15 years it would take a LOT to take me back to her, an epiphany? I've asked "How can the HS truly be living in this person" behind a wall of conventionality?
It's true, who can 100% guess someone's spirituality? We are left to make decisions the best we can. In marriage this discerning is a big deal. Paul in Corinth. talks of the shame of becoming one with prostitute ie how can the body of the HS become one with them. Well I want to become one with a Christian!!!
One other thing re grieving. This is an alternate stage of grieving to the traditional Kubler-Ross model. Maybe it will be helpful.........


I like this grieving model
1) acknowledge the loss
2) feel the impact
3) acquire temporary substitutes
4) detach from the relationship
5) reconstruct a new life.

Exactly, how can the Spirit of God flow in, and work through a person who is doing so many things that contradict the scriptures? In my faith, our personal relationship with our Savior is very personally manifest in us. I was speaking to my therapist, who is Christian, and they spoke these words to me when I questioned her about the very same thing. The passage is from Romans 11:29, and I used the Amplified Version:

29For God's gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]

Ever wonder how men of God can continue to preach with anointing when they have sinned? Here you go. There are numerous instances in the Bible where God continued to use people as vessels, even though they were sinful. King David, by law, should have been killed for his adultry, yet in the Old Testament, he was shown mercy.

Now, I'm not saying it makes it easier...it still stinks, hurts, etc. I guess God's ways are really not our ways. That is what really messes me up, what is the plan, God? Why am I wheream right now, and why does it seem there has been no penalty for her sins? Very confusing...

5kd

 

[FaithfulWife]

I am struggling with this as well. I HAATTEE being alone. I never liked eating out alone, never liked doing things by myself, etc. I am liking the single dad thing, though...well, getting used to it. I did it quite a bit when we were together, so now I am doing it, but without her now. My kids are great with me when we are out, so that is cool. I don't like being alone, but realize that it is only a temporary situation for now. Whether it is another woman, or my 5 kids on a permanent basis, I won't be alone forever.

5kd

5KD~

Actually I have a suggestion for you that may actually help you to learn to LIKE being alone. (By the way, I want to note here that from my earliest life I've known that I ENJOY being a mom and being a wife and sharing my life. I'm not called to be single. Also, I want to note to you in particular that I married a man who had a lot of kids and who's ex was a walkaway mom--so you are not hopeless okay?)

When I was single the first thing I did was stupid stuff to make the house my own. Now I know you are with your parents 5KD, but what I mean is that I got new curtains--a new quilt--new towels and that kind of thing. I got the frilliest, girliest, handmade ROSES quilt that I could find because when I was married I could have NEVER had a quilt like that, and even though I am not an enormously frilly girl myself, it was the statement that counted. So remember that Green Bay Packer bedroom you always wanted and she'd never let you get? Go get it! Claim YOUR space in whatever is YOUR way.

Next, this is dumb but it was so true. With my ex, he would never let me wear my shoes in the house, so when I was alone, when I wanted to I wore my shoes WANTONLY into the house...MY house. A few times I put my dirty shoes up on the coffee table too just to make a point! With my ex, he would never let me drink grape juice because he said that I always spilled it. Well...can you guess? I became a grape juice FIEND because I love grape juice. On the occasion, I did spill it and you know what happened? Seriously--know what happened? Not One Blessed Thing. I washed it and it came out. So in YOUR space, actually do some of the things you love to do that you gave up or "couldn't do" because you were with your spouse. Listen to Grateful Dead at 2am--because YOU like it!

Finally--I learned to not sit home and just have nothing to do. When I got really depressed and upset, if I was home alone with no prospect of ever seeing anyone, I felt like "What's the point?" but if I got out once or twice a week, and one of the two times was to help others, I felt better...like there might be a point! So for me, I went once a week to a support group of women who had been physically abused (for me and to help), I went to church, and I went and did volunteer work (at Goodwill and a homeless shelter). The women in my group became my actual friends and they understood so I felt like I wasn't alone. Next, church was good for my soul but at least I also got out and someone had to see me. Finally the volunteering--I have to admit every time I thought, "UGH do I have to go?" and sort of made myself do it, and then by the end I had a good time and felt like "Whoa! My life ain't so bad after all!"

For food, I said skip it--I don't want to cook for one and make pans and stuff. So I ate microwave or "warm in the oven" food from the store but oh well. Oh also soup! Weird but I came to just LOVE soup!

So start enjoying you're alone-ness. You are the most fun, amazing, interesting company!


~Faithful