Papal Infallibility ... once again ;)

Christos Anesti

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I was reading a letter by Aleksei Khomiakov written in response to a letter that called for holy war against the “Photians” (Orthodox) by the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Paris Marie-Domnique-Auguste Sibur. At the time the Crimean War was going on. This war pitted armies of majority RC, Protestant, and Muslim nations against a primarily Orthodox foe. The Archbishop called it a holy war of religion to rid the world of the heresy of the Photians. Because of this some of the statements in Khomiakovs response letter may sound a little harsh to modern ears but he make some interesting points so I wanted to show it. He wrote this reply 1855:


I have said that, from the early times of the Christianity until the great Western schism, knowledge of the divine truths had been considered to belong to the totality of the Church united by the spirit of charity and love. This doctrine, preserved to the present, has recently been proclaimed publicly by a unanimous agreement of the patriarchs and all the Christians of the East.


In the ninth century the West, unfaithful to the tradition of the Church appropriated the right to alter the ecumenical creed without consulting with its Eastern brothers and sisters, and this at the very moment when the latter showed a fraternal deference to the West by submitting to it for its approval the decisions of the Council of Nicaea. What was the inevitable logical consequence of this separated from the moral principle of love expressed by the unanimity of the Church, a protestant anarchy was established in practice. Every diocese could appropriate vis-à-vis the Western patriarchate the right that the latter appropriated vis-à-vis the totality of the Church; every parish could appropriate this right vis-à-vis the diocese; every individual could appropriate it vis-à-vis all other individuals.


No sophistry could allow one to avoid this consequence. Either the truth of the faith is given to the union of all and to their mutual love in Jesus Christ, or it can be given to every individual without regard to other individuals. In order to avoid this consequence and the resulting anarchy, it was necessary to replace the moral law that was found to be constraining the young pride of the Germano-Roman nations by some new law, whether inner or external, which could give an indisputable authority to the decisions of the eccelesiastical society in the west, or which could at least appear to give such authority. This need gradually led to the idea of infallibility of the Pope. In fact his administrative and judicial supremacy (which, in itself, does not withstand serious criticism) could not, even if it were admitted in its broadest sense, serve to justify a schismatic doctrine or act.


Neither could it be justified by conditional infallibility (that is one that requires that a Papal decision be in agreement with the totality of the Church), since a new dogmatic decision was introduced in the ecumenical creed without consultation with the Eastern patriarchates, none of which was even informed. So as not to remain schismatic in the eyes of the Church or to justify by its example all license of Protestantism, Romanism felt it necessary to attribute an absolute infallibility to the Bishop of Rome. That is the inevitable consequence that was , in the end, accepted by a very large number of Latinizers and that should have been accepted by all of them.


This absolute infallibility, however, has never been recognized as an indisputable dogma and is still not recognized as such at the present time [ 1855]. On the other hand this papal infallibility had been completely ignored in the early Church (even the Latinizers themselves acknowledge this). Papal infallibility was publicly denied by the fathers in the early Church (witness the work of St Hippolytus and the condemnation pronounced by an ecumenical council against the memory of [Pope] Honorius for his error in dogma). Papal infallibility was not even referred to in the first discussions of the Latins against the Greeks, nor was it mentioned in later conferences. In the end, Papal infallibility is apparently only a conditional principle accepted retrospectively and by necessity- in order to justify an illegal act prior to it.


The Romans therefore have no other support for their schism than a principle who conditionality they themselves are aware of. On the other hand, taking as its point of departure the opinion that the West used a legitimate right in altering the creed and having lost all memory of the moral interdependence in which the diocese of the early Church found themselves, but not being able to feel itself subject to the conditional principle, Protestantism arrived at the inevitable conclusion that every country, every dioceses, and finally , every individual has a right equal to that of the Western patriarchate to separate itself from the totality of the Church and to create a creed or belief of their own liking.
 

Christos Anesti

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The creed wasn't supposed to be added too or subtracted from outside of another general / ecumenical council of the Church*. None of the bishops or patriarchs had the authority to change it on their own. The council even anathematized anyone who would try to do that.

* and even then you know that no one would dare subtract from it and none of the Patriarchs agreed with the Latin Patariarchs addition so the Pope would have never had his way if he tried it (to call a council to do that). Instead he just did it on his own supposed authority.
 
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Macarius

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It sounds like Khomiakov is suggesting that the patriarch of Rome can't do anything without first consulting the Eastern patriarchates in such and such manner.

And vice-versa (so long as both are in communion). The faith belongs to the entire church - not to a single see.
 
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ProScribe

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The creed wasn't supposed to be added too or subtracted from outside of another general / ecumenical council of the Church*. None of the bishops or patriarchs had the authority to change it on their own. The council even anathematized anyone who would try to do that.

* and even then you know that no one would dare subtract from it and none of the Patriarchs agreed with the Latin Patariarchs addition so the Pope would have never had his way if he tried it (to call a council to do that). Instead he just did it on his own supposed authority.

Tough call . . The Filioque clause is considered a doctrinal heresy in the East but gradually accepted in the West.
 
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ArmyMatt

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It sounds like Khomiakov is suggesting that the patriarch of Rome can't do anything without first consulting the Eastern patriarchates in such and such manner.

I heard that all apostolic authority rests with the bishops who adhere to the undistorted Gospel and remain in loving communion with their brother bishops. Rome, sadly, has devaited in both respects.
 
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Apophatic80

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Papal infallibility is seemingly strange stuff! One could have been a devout, good Roman Catholic in 1674, for example, not believe in P.I., and not have been excommunicated. Not so after Vatican I. But I suppose that since they use Cardinal Newman's development of doctrine, then they can develop new rules/dogmas as they wish and justify it with the above. It's just so fishy. The Orthodox Church does no such thing, and that is one of the myriad reasons why I love being Orthodox!
 
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It is strange that the RCC waited until 1870 to define the dogma of Papal Infallibility. I wonder why it was not defined at the Council of Trent? Perhaps they felt no need to define it then, if it was commonly understood to be true? OK, I can accept that such might have been the case, in the West anyway. However, we are still left with the question of what prompted the RCC to define the dogma in 1870?
 
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Ortho_Cat

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It is strange that the RCC waited until 1870 to define the dogma of Papal Infallibility. I wonder why it was not defined at the Council of Trent? Perhaps they felt no need to define it then, if it was commonly understood to be true? OK, I can accept that such might have been the case, in the West anyway. However, we are still left with the question of what prompted the RCC to define the dogma in 1870?

Rationalism had strongly pervaded western culture by this time, and people began to question the authority and legitimacy of the RCC and it's practices like never before, and the Church was aware of this. The enactment of this doctrine was a reaction by the Church to 'tighten the reigns on the faithful' so to speak, and to elevate the authority of the pope (that is the sociopolitical perspective, at least).
 
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ProScribe

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It is strange that the RCC waited until 1870 to define the dogma of Papal Infallibility. I wonder why it was not defined at the Council of Trent? Perhaps they felt no need to define it then, if it was commonly understood to be true? OK, I can accept that such might have been the case, in the West anyway. However, we are still left with the question of what prompted the RCC to define the dogma in 1870?

For the truth about Papal Infallibility you need to ask the Catholics and read about it in their official Catechism.
 
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Anastasis777

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Perhaps they felt no need to define it then, if it was commonly understood to be true?

It wasn't. Michael Whelton dedicates a whole chapter to this in Two Paths: Papal Monarchy - Collegial Tradition.
 
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Christos Anesti

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St Cyril of Jerusalem warned Christians not to accept any changes to the creed:

"For since all cannot read the Scriptures, some being hindered from the knowledge of them by lack of learning, and others because they lack leisure to study, in order that the soul should not be starved in ignorance, the church has condensed the whole teaching of the Faith in a few lines. This summary I wish you both to commit to memory when I recite it, and to rehearse it with all diligence among yourselves, not writing it out on paper, but engraving it by the memory upon your heart, taking care while you rehearse it that no catechumen may happen to overhear the things which have been delivered to you. I wish you also to keep this as a provision through the whole course of your life, and beside this to receive no alternative teaching, even if we ourselves should change and contradict our present teaching." - Catech. Lect. 5.12
 
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Typikon

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I have problems with papal authority, because for me scripture is so blunt: "you are Peter, and above this rock i will build my church; i give you the keys of heaven, whatever you tie on earth is tied in heaven, and whatever is untied on earth is untied in heaven".

It's not blunt at all when you look at it from the traditional catholic point of view (i.e. how St John Chrysostom, St. Ephraim the Syrian, St Jerome, St. Augustine and other ECF who commented on Matthew interpreted the verse) and not from the modern Papist point of view.
 
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It's not blunt at all when you look at it from the traditional catholic point of view (i.e. how St John Chrysostom, St. Ephraim the Syrian, St Jerome, St. Augustine and other ECF who commented on Matthew interpreted the verse) and not from the modern Papist point of view.

Unfortunately it´s not so easy:

St. Chrysostom:
"He saith to him, "Feed my sheep". Why does He pass over the others and speak of the sheep to Peter? He was the chosen one of the Apostles, the mouth of the disciples, the head of the choir. For this reason Paul went up to see him rather than the others. And also to show him that he must have confidence now that his denial had been purged away. He entrusts him with the rule [prostasia] over the brethren. . . . If anyone should say "Why then was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?", I should reply that He made Peter the teacher not of that see but of the whole world.
[
St. John Chrysostom, Homily 88 on John, 1"

I actually would like to reject the papacy, but the word of God is there, up to discussion.​
 
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