Pandemic started in a lab:

[DaisyDay]

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/03/covid-origins-research-raccoon-dogs-wuhan-market-lab-leak/673390/

Now, an international team of virologists, genomicists, and evolutionary biologists may have finally found crucial data to help fill that knowledge gap. A new analysis of genetic sequences collected from the market shows that raccoon dogs being illegally sold at the venue could have been carrying and possibly shedding the virus at the end of 2019. It’s some of the strongest support yet, experts told me, that the pandemic began when SARS-CoV-2 hopped from animals into humans, rather than in an accident among scientists experimenting with viruses.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Ummm. The lab is called the Wuhan Corona Virus Lab.

No, it isn't.

 

[stevil]

Ummm. The lab is called the Wuhan Corona Virus Lab. They worked on the Corona virus. The virus started in Wuhan. But for some reason liberals can't seem to put two and two together. The corona virus in Wuhan didn't care me from the corona virus lab in Wuhan, it came from some random animal that came from somewhere else.. Yea I'm sure some random animal from who knows.where outside it Wuhan contracted the virus and brought it to Wuhan which then infected the whole world. How crazy of us to believe that one, the Wuhan Corona Virus Lab in Wuhan was the source of the Wuhan corona virus that started in Wuhan.

And we totally trust the Chinese to be completely honest and forthcoming about everything.

The reason why Wuhan has a lab that investigates Corona Virus is that the area is known for having Corona virus.

We should not have laymen running around the internet claiming to know the origins. This is something that is currently unknown but has been investigated. Neither the wet market nor the lab have been ruled out.

 

[rjs330]

The reason why Wuhan has a lab that investigates Corona Virus is that the area is known for having Corona virus.

We should not have laymen running around the internet claiming to know the origins. This is something that is currently unknown but has been investigated. Neither the wet market nor the lab have been ruled out.

And since we know that the gain of function research was going on in the lab there are further suspicions based upon how this virus acted. The odds are in favor that this came from the lab. I'm so far more likely that it did than it did not. I don't know that we will ever get a definitive answer. You cannot trust the Chinese. We've already been lied to by others. That's why they won't come out and really say. No one will. Because the moment they do there will be demand in accountability.

Even if they knew beyond all doubt no one is going to admit it because of the repercussions. Cause as long as they can say, we can't rule out the wet markets on raccoon dogs there can't be any real accountability.

Nope, I think this came from the lab.

 

[rjs330]

No, it isn't.

Oh please, it's the Wuhan lab that is the premier researcher in corona viruses. It's the Wuhan Corona virus lab. We all know it and we all know the virus is the Wuhan Corona virus. Which just happened to start in the same area where the Wuhan corona virus lab is located. It's called simple deduction. What virus does it study again? Oh yeah, the CORONA virus.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Oh please, it's the Wuhan lab that is the premier researcher in corona viruses.

No, it is "a" premier research center for the study of coronaviruses.[6]

 

[Say it aint so]

Ummm. The lab is called the Wuhan Corona Virus Lab. They worked on the Corona virus. The virus started in Wuhan. But for some reason liberals can't seem to put two and two together. The corona virus in Wuhan didn't care me from the corona virus lab in Wuhan, it came from some random animal that came from somewhere else.. Yea I'm sure some random animal from who knows.where outside it Wuhan contracted the virus and brought it to Wuhan which then infected the whole world. How crazy of us to believe that one, the Wuhan Corona Virus Lab in Wuhan was the source of the Wuhan corona virus that started in Wuhan.

And we totally trust the Chinese to be completely honest and forthcoming about everything.

We just don't know to be making the assumptions you make. And yes, historically a whole lot of viruses started from animals: Ebola; HIV; Black Plague: Bubonic Plague; SARS; MERS; Bovine tuberculosis. Wasn't the market they swabbed pretty much right after it happened also in Wuhan?

 

[stevil]

And since we know that the gain of function research was going on in the lab there are further suspicions based upon how this virus acted. The odds are in favor that this came from the lab.

Says who?
Trump?
Fox News Opinion Hosts?
Breightbart
Other far right propogandists?
Jim Jordon (Republican MAGA)?

 

[rjs330]

No, it is "a" premier research center for the study of coronaviruses.[6]

Potato pototo

 

[rjs330]

Says who?
Trump?
Fox News Opinion Hosts?
Breightbart
Other far right propogandists?
Jim Jordon (Republican MAGA)?

I'm sure whatever is supplied won't be adequate to you deniers. But here goes anyway.

NIH Documents Provide New Evidence U.S. Funded Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan

The National Institutes of Health-funded experiment in Wuhan, China, posed biosafety risks but did not cause the Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say.

theintercept.com

In Major Shift, NIH Admits Funding Risky Virus Research in Wuhan

A spokesman for Dr. Fauci says he has been “entirely truthful,” but a new letter belatedly acknowledging the National Institutes of Health’s support for virus-enhancing research adds more heat to the ongoing debate over whether a lab leak could have sparked the pandemic.

www.vanityfair.com

NIH Admits to Funding Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan, Says EcoHealth Violated Reporting Requirements

A top NIH official admitted that U.S. taxpayers funded gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan.

news.yahoo.com

 

[rjs330]

We just don't know to be making the assumptions you make. And yes, historically a whole lot of viruses started from animals: Ebola; HIV; Black Plague: Bubonic Plague; SARS; MERS; Bovine tuberculosis. Wasn't the market they swabbed pretty much right after it happened also in Wuhan?

So? Corona viruses existed before and that's why this lab was set up. THIS virus caused a pandemic very quickly including it's mutations. The odds are much greater that the WUHAN virus starting in Wuhan came from the WUHAN CORONA VIRUS LAB.

You actually think they are going to admit it? Yes of course the Chinese have always been very honest. Always.

 

[stevil]

I'm sure whatever is supplied won't be adequate to you deniers. But here goes anyway.

NIH Documents Provide New Evidence U.S. Funded Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan

The National Institutes of Health-funded experiment in Wuhan, China, posed biosafety risks but did not cause the Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say.

theintercept.com

In Major Shift, NIH Admits Funding Risky Virus Research in Wuhan

A spokesman for Dr. Fauci says he has been “entirely truthful,” but a new letter belatedly acknowledging the National Institutes of Health’s support for virus-enhancing research adds more heat to the ongoing debate over whether a lab leak could have sparked the pandemic.

www.vanityfair.com

NIH Admits to Funding Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan, Says EcoHealth Violated Reporting Requirements

A top NIH official admitted that U.S. taxpayers funded gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan.

news.yahoo.com

The question was about this claim regarding evidence of it being a leak from the lab.

 

[Say it aint so]

So? Corona viruses existed before and that's why this lab was set up. THIS virus caused a pandemic very quickly including it's mutations. The odds are much greater that the WUHAN virus starting in Wuhan came from the WUHAN CORONA VIRUS LAB.

You actually think they are going to admit it? Yes of course the Chinese have always been very honest. Always.

So?
Let me understand this.
The historical origins of most viruses should have no consideration in determining this one?
Given the recent report where traces of this virus was found in market should have no consideration?
Where are you getting this odds to make absolute claims? Exactly how wet do you get your finger before you stick it in the wind.
Again, it may have come from the lab, we don't know. You don't know.

 

[stevil]

So?
Let me understand this.
The historical origins of most viruses should have no consideration in determining this one?
Given the recent report where traces of this virus was found in market should have no consideration?
Where are you getting this odds to make absolute claims? Exactly how wet do you get your finger before you stick it in the wind.
Again, it may have come from the lab, we don't know. You don't know.

Given what he is saying when he is explaining his determination of the source. It is painfully obvious to all, he does not have sufficient information and is making a pick out of personal preference rather than evidentiary based. End of story.

 

[probinson]

So?
Let me understand this.
The historical origins of most viruses should have no consideration in determining this one?

The failed response to SARS-CoV2 didn't take into consideration the response to historical viruses and discarded all pre-established pandemic preparedness plans. Why should the origin be any different?

Given the recent report where traces of this virus was found in market should have no consideration?

You do know the market is literally across the river from the lab, right?

Again, it may have come from the lab, we don't know. You don't know.

That's true. But the lengths that Fauci and Collins went to in order to suppress discussion of the possibility of a lab origin and classify any such discussion as "conspiracy theory" is highly suspicious.

Treason of the Science Journals

How Anthony Fauci manufactured consensus on the origins of COVID-19 with the help of science writers and the media

www.tabletmag.com

 

[Say it aint so]

The failed response to SARS-CoV2 didn't take into consideration the response to historical viruses and discarded all pre-established pandemic preparedness plans. Why should the origin be any different?



You do know the market is literally across the river from the lab, right?

View attachment 329224



That's true. But the lengths that Fauci and Collins went to in order to suppress discussion of the possibility of a lab origin and classify any such discussion as "conspiracy theory" is highly suspicious.

Treason of the Science Journals

How Anthony Fauci manufactured consensus on the origins of COVID-19 with the help of science writers and the media

www.tabletmag.com

So basically were still at, "we don't know".

 

[stevil]

So basically were still at, "we don't know".

And we are still at the point of loyal Trump supporters claiming to know, despite any supporting evidence.
Claiming that it WAS a lab leak, because that's what Trump claimed despite any supporting evidence.

 

[Say it aint so]

And we are still at the point of loyal Trump supporters claiming to know, despite any supporting evidence.
Claiming that it WAS a lab leak, because that's what Trump claimed despite any supporting evidence.

Surely I hope they aren't making absolute claims without absolute evidence solely for the sake of all people, Donald "I just make it up" Trump.

 

[stevil]

Surely I hope they aren't making absolute claims without absolute evidence solely for the sake of all people, Donald "I just make it up" Trump.

I just presume, they know Trump looks really bad with his Covid response, so they are frantic and desperate to pin all the unnecessary USA deaths on Faucci. The rest of us have no horse in this race, so we are content to admit that the origins are unknown.

 

[probinson]

So basically were still at, "we don't know".

Did you read the article I linked?

Here's a few snippets.

New emails released in a congressional probe show that Fauci helped direct the publication of “The Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2,” an influential scientific paper published in Nature Medicine on March 17, 2020, that claimed COVID-19 could not have leaked from a laboratory. Fauci then cited the paper—in effect quoting himself, since he coordinated the article behind the scenes and was given final approval before it published—as if it was an independent source corroborating his assertions that COVID could only have come from a bat and not from a lab.​

​

...​

​

Fauci, it appears, may have been trying to hide his connections to the Wuhan Laboratory of Virology (WIV). For years, according to a report at The Intercept, the National Institutes of Health (where Fauci served as a director) directed government grants to the Chinese facility where multiple investigations by federal agencies have now concluded the virus likely originated—specifically to fund the controversial gain of function (GoF) research that intentionally engineers deadly viruses in order to study them. Even if this was all merely a coincidence, it certainly looked bad. Fauci seemed so alarmed by the optics that in January 2020, he sent an email to his deputy, Hugh Auchincloss, with the single-word, all-caps subject line “IMPORTANT”—something he does not do in the hundreds of pages of other emails released to the public via FOIA requests. The email Fauci sent contained a link to a scientific study that was then spreading across the internet, which had originally been published in 2015 at the Wuhan Institute of Virology by the WIV’s Shi Zhengli and pioneering American GoF researcher Ralph Baric. In the body of the email, Fauci wrote to Auchincloss, “It is essential that we speak this AM. Keep your cell phone on …You will have tasks today that must be done.”​

​

...​

​

As a product of its own hype, the science media has been granted a kind of epistemological special status on science-related issues. On matters related to science, the thinking among consumer journalists goes, surely the science writers will have more, and better, things to say. That might be true, but on issues where science, money, power and crisis collide, it almost certainly is not. And no issue brought together those four horsemen of enlightened corruption more dramatically than the COVID-19 pandemic.​

Here's another bit of investigative reporting that shows that the US absolutely was funding gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

1) Francis Collins claimed that the NIH/NIAID never approved any grant that would have supported “gain-of-function” research on coronaviruses that would have increased their transmissibility or lethality for humans. ​

​

2) The NIH halted research on 18 separate projects, at least five of which were on coronaviruses, for potentially creating versions that were more deadly in or transmissible among humans. ​

​

3) Five projects on coronaviruses were exempted from the pause—solely because a funding-agency official declared they were urgently necessary.​

​

Denials by Fauci and Collins of Supporting Gain-of-Function Research Are "Brazenly Untruthful"

As concerns mount regarding the US's funding of gain-of-function research on dangerous pathogens, documents from a 2014 public records request cast doubt on the honesty of health officials

davidzweig.substack.com

​

Both of these articles are worth your time if you're interested in understanding how far Fauci went to conceal his connection to WiV.

I'm curious, how much smoke do we have to be suffocating in before we acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, there's a fire?

​