Pagan Holidays

[Strong in Him]

Christmas is an idol.

Only if you make it into one, and worship materialism, money, booze, bigger and better presents/possessions.

the Apostles and original Christians did not celebrate Christmas. It’s a pagan holiday

Scripture doesn't say that they remembered the day on which Christ was born, but that doesn't mean that they didn't celebrate his birth, or the incarnation, in some way. Matthew and Luke wrote about it in detail; they clearly wanted people to know what had happened.

ask yourself why the world celebrates Christmas.

A lot of people who don't set foot in church during the rest of the year, go at Christmas. Or listen to Christmas carols - either in church or on television/radio.

There are some who treat it only as a huge party and excuse for booze, food, presents and material stuff; that doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone to celebrate this festival.

The world hates Christ.

They may do; but most of the world don't know Christ or have never met him.

They celebrate it because it belongs to the pagans.

The days of the week and months of the year are named after Roman/Greek gods; do they "belong to the pagans" too?

Christmas and Easter day, for myself and many others, are about Jesus.

Pagans don’t care about Christ.

Do they know about him? Have you told them?

 

[Strong in Him]

Do you really believe that you will enter eternal life outside of covenant?

The NEW covenant was delivered, and sealed, by Jesus.
It is HE who gives eternal life, John 3:16, John 3:36, John 6:40, 1 John 5:12.
There is no salvation apart from Jesus, Acts of the Apostles 4:12.

 

[Cormack]

My take away from these kinds of conversation is that the pro holiday side write their own arguments, showing grace to the people who want to abstain from the Christmas celebration. They share material responsibly and have reasoned through their findings.

While the anti holiday group post what look like encyclopaedias of unsolicited, unfounded accusation against the holiday period. These views are copy paste and require zero critical thinking. They’re not gracious but rather would like to slander believers as pagan, idolaters and under the wrath of God. They uncritically post anything so long as it’s against the holidays, regardless of the harm it may cause to an unseasoned believer in Jesus Christ, smashing the faith of some beyond repair. These same kind of arguments are used to argue Jesus was copied from pagan religions, so it’s a slippery slope at the end of the day. Matthew 18 comes to mind, on the subject of harming people’s faith.

The pictures and similarities I’ve seen are so far fetched and absurd that the anti holiday group expect every bearded man to see a picture of Santa Claus, pause for a moment, and ask himself “am I part of the Christmas conspiracy?!!!”

Their approach appeals to distrust, ignorance, arrogance to be above the community and hatred of their fellow man. It’s a glorified conspiracy theory that appeals to everything bad in us.

 

[Strong in Him]

(CLV) Jer 10:2
Thus says Yahweh: The way of the nations, do not learn, And by the signs of the heavens, do not be dismayed, Though the nations are being dismayed by them.
(CLV) Jer 10:3
Indeed concerning the statutes of the peoples, it all is vanity, For one cuts it down, a tree from the wildwood, The work of an artificer's hands with an adz;
(CLV) Jer 10:4
With silver and with gold he makes it lovely; With nails and with hammers they fasten it, so that it cannot quaver.

If you're using those verses, taken out of context, to try to "prove" that a Christmas tree is an idol; that topic's been done to death on these forums.
Basically, it isn't.

 

[HARK!]

John 3:36,

John 3:36
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

King James Version (KJV)

 

[HARK!]

If you're using those verses, taken out of context, to try to "prove" that a Christmas tree is an idol; that topic's been done to death on these forums.
Basically, it isn't.

“Romans used evergreens to decorate their homes during the winter festival of Saturnalia,

The Pagan Beliefs Surrounding Christmas/The Christmas Tree - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

 

[prodromos]

“Romans used evergreens to decorate their homes during the winter festival of Saturnalia,

The Pagan Beliefs Surrounding Christmas/The Christmas Tree - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

So if it came from that practice you would expect that it would have been Christians in Rome who would have decorated trees. Why then is there no evidence of this happening?

 

[HARK!]

So if it came from that practice you would expect that it would have been Christians in Rome who would have decorated trees. Why then is there no evidence of this happening?

Why would you assume that Christians were celebrating Saturnalia?

 

[Oldmantook]

Pagans didnt celebrate Easter/Pascha. Nor did they have a festival called Christmas on which they recelebrated the incarnation of Jesus.

Of course not. Why would the pagans call it Christmas when they weren't celebrating Christ? The were celebrating/worshiping Sol Invictus. Easter is the celebration of Ishtar. Ever wonder why Christian churches have Easter egg hunts for the kiddies? I suggest you do your homework.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Of course not. Why would the pagans call it Christmas when they weren't celebrating Christ? The were celebrating/worshiping Sol Invictus. Easter is the celebration of Ishtar. Ever wonder why Christian churches have Easter egg hunts for the kiddies? I suggest you do your homework.

I'll bite. Easter cannot be derived from ancient Babylonian Goddess called Ishtar. For one thing you cannot explain how etymologically medieval Christians in England/Germany were directly influenced in calling the feast Easter because of this Goddess instead of local reasons (like it just happening to be the name of the month).

The eggs also have no connection to ancient Babylonian religion. They instead derive their significance from Lent since traditionally you are supposed to abstain from eggs during Lent.

I won't suggest you do homework, but I will suggest you think about these things. Follow this train of thought. Ask yourself why non English Christians call the feast Pascha/resurrection day. Consider then that the term Easter does not predate this earlier name of the feast. Then ask if that is the earliest name of the feast where does the word Pascha derive from? You would then discover it is obviously derived from the Jewish Pascha (The Greek word for Passover).

What then would you conclude after this point? I'll leave it to you.

 

[Strong in Him]

John 3:36
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

King James Version (KJV)

That's what I said.
Eternal life is in, and through, the Son, who came to bring the New Covenant.

 

[Strong in Him]

“Romans used evergreens to decorate their homes during the winter festival of Saturnalia,

So?
It doesn't mean that I do - nor that I am celebrating Saturnalia.

 

[prodromos]

Why would you assume that Christians were celebrating Saturnalia?

What makes you think I assume that, seeing as I don't.

 

[HARK!]

So?
It doesn't mean that I do - nor that I am celebrating Saturnalia.

Praise YHWH.

YHWH tells us not to worship him in the ways of the Pagan. He hates that. He gives us very specific times, and very specific ways to worship him.

Shabbat shalom!

 

[HARK!]

What makes you think I assume that, seeing as I don't.

So if it came from that practice you would expect that it would have been Christians in Rome who would have decorated trees. Why then is there no evidence of this happening?

 

[prodromos]

You don't appear to understand my question so I'll try rephrasing it.
If the claim (from the link you posted) is that the Christian tradition of decorating pine trees in the home for Christmas came from a Roman Saturnalia tradition, why do we not find any evidence of Christians in Rome decorating trees?

 

[Der Alte]

Praise YHWH.
YHWH tells us not to worship him in the ways of the Pagan. He hates that. He gives us very specific times, and very specific ways to worship him.
Shabbat shalom!

How many of those times and ways are specifically for the Israelites and how many are reiterated in the NT for gentile Christians?
If you want to be a Jew then be a Jew, if you want to be a Christian then be a Christian, not half and half.

 

[Der Alte]

(CLV) Jer 10:2
Thus says Yahweh: The way of the nations, do not learn, And by the signs of the heavens, do not be dismayed, Though the nations are being dismayed by them.
(CLV) Jer 10:3
Indeed concerning the statutes of the peoples, it all is vanity, For one cuts it down, a tree from the wildwood, The work of an artificer's hands with an adz;
(CLV) Jer 10:4
With silver and with gold he makes it lovely; With nails and with hammers they fasten it, so that it cannot quaver.

This is the typical heterodox practice of quoting 2-3 verses out-of-context trying to prove something. Very likely deliberately omitting verses which proves their assumptions wrong e.g. vs. 5 this passage.

Jeremiah 10:3-5
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.​

Is a decorated tree expected to move vs. 4, is a tree expected to speak, go, do evil, or do good, vs. 5? No, but a pagan deity is expected to do all those things. Let's look at a parallel passage in Isa.

Isaiah 46:5-7
5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?
6 They lavish gold out of the bag, and weigh silver in the balance, and hire a goldsmith; and he maketh it a god: they fall down, yea, they worship.
7 They bear him upon the shoulder, they carry him, and set him in his place, and he standeth; from his place shall he not remove: yea, one shall cry unto him, yet can he not answer, nor save him out of his trouble.​

I know that this will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

The Lord has said we are not to adopt the customs/traditions of the heathens/ungodly.(Leviticus 18:2-4,Jer 10:2-3,8; Deut 12:29-32, 2 Cor 6:14-17, Eph 5:6-12) That we are instead to be separate from the world.(1 John 2:15-17,3:1,4:4-8,16, John 17:5-26[Especially 12-19], 15:16-21, 2 Cor 6:17)

We are not to keep the customs and traditions created by men
Colossians 2:
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

We keep the Traditions given by the Apostles and Christ, not those of this world
2 Thess 2:15
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

If the Apostles or Christ didn't tell us to keep it then we should not keep it. We follow the ways of God and not the Customs of men.

 

[Der Alte]

The Lord has said we are not to adopt the customs/traditions of the heathens/ungodly.(Leviticus 18:2-4,Jer 10:2-3,8; Deut 12:29-32, 2 Cor 6:14-17, Eph 5:6-12) That we are instead to be separate from the world.(1 John 2:15-17,3:1,4:4-8,16, John 17:5-26[Especially 12-19], 15:16-21, 2 Cor 6:17)
We are not to keep the customs and traditions created by men
Colossians 2:
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
We keep the Traditions given by the Apostles and Christ, not those of this world
2 Thess 2:15
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
If the Apostles or Christ didn't tell us to keep it then we should not keep it. We follow the ways of God and not the Customs of men.

That is good and fine you decide for yourself what is or is not proper for you to do and let other people do the same. Unless one can provide credible, verifiable, historical evidence that something was a pagan practice one should not go around wagging their finger in other people's faces. And I can almost guarantee you will not be able to.
I have been at this forum since George H.W. Bush was president and read these accusations many, many times but have not seen any credible evidence.