Pagan Holidays

[Der Alte]

Or they were adopted, (like we were) and changed into something else, (like we were) and have become holidays that Christians celebrate. Well...those who want to celebrate them any way.
...except they are now, and have been for many centuries.
Probably by taking them over and simply remaking them into something different. Doesn't appear to be that hard. I mean, they are just days, right? So a bunch of people look around one day and say, "You know? We already have that day off, why don't we all get together then and instead of doing all that Saturnie stuff, let's have a church service at my house instead?" and next year they do it again And then "BOOM!" Christmas is born!
tulc(a lot of things are pretty easy when it get's right down to it, it's people that seem to make them unnecessarily complicated)

Nonsense! Do you have any credible, verifiable, historical evidence to support any of this.

 

[HARK!]

I have been attending churches since FDR was president and I have never seen bunnies, eggs, Santa Claus, Christmas trees etc. as part of any Christian service.

Good for you. I used to go to a Baptist church for many years; and we took part in those pagan rituals.

 

[Dkh587]

View attachment 275379

It’s sad that so many Christians are content celebrating pagan holy days that have no relevance to God’s plan of salvation through Christ, and care nothing about celebrating God’s holy days, which have everything to do with God’s plan of salvation through Christ

 

[Der Alte]

Good for you. I used to go to a Baptist church for many years; and we took part in those pagan rituals.

I have to correct what I said earlier. I have seen trees in church foyers with cards that showed the name, address and gender of a needy child and something the child wanted, members who wanted to could take a name and provide a present for that child.
Back to your comment what one church may have done some years ago does not reflect on all churches.

 

[HARK!]

Philip Schaff's History of the Christian Church, volume 3, section 79, The Time of the Easter Festival states:

"The feast of the resurrection was thenceforth required to be celebrated everywhere on a Sunday, and never on the day of the Jewish passover, but always after the fourteenth of Nisan, on the
Sunday after the first vernal full moon. The leading motive for this regulation was opposition to Judaism, which had dishonored the passover by the crucifixion of the Lord. ... At Nicaea, therefore, the Roman and Alexandrian usage with respect to Easter triumphed, and the Judaizing practice of the
Quartodecimanians, who always celebrated Passover on the fourteenth of Nisan, became thenceforth a heresy. Yet that practice continued in many parts of the East, and in the time of Epiphanius, about a.d. 400, there were many, Quartodecimanians, who, as he says, were orthodox, indeed, in doctrine, but in ritual were addicted to Jewish fables, and built upon the principle: “Cursed is every one who does not keep his passover on the fourteenth of Nisan.”

(CLV) Dt 27:26
Cursed be the one who is not carrying out all the words of this law to do them. Then all the people will say: Amen!


(CLV) Dn 7:25
Declarations against the Supreme shall he declare; to the saints of the supremacies shall he bring decay; he shall intend to alter stated times and an edict, and they shall be granted into his hand for a season and two seasons and half a season.

 

[HARK!]

It’s sad that so many Christians are content celebrating pagan holy days that have no relevance to God’s plan of salvation through Christ, and care nothing about celebrating God’s holy days, which have everything to do with God’s plan of salvation through Christ

And these are YHWH's eternal appointed times!

PASSOVER

“And this day shall be unto youfor a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD {Yahweh} throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)

UNLEAVENED BREAD

“And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:17)

SHAVUOT (Feast of Weeks)

“And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute FOREVER in all your dwellings throughout your generations.” (Leviticus 23:21)

YOM KIPPUR

Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute FOREVER throughout your generations in all your dwellings. (Leviticus 23:31)

FEAST OF TABERNACLES (Booths / Sukkot)

And ye shall keep it a feast unto YHWH seven days in the year. It shall be a statute FOREVER in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.(Leviticus 23:41)

 

[Der Alte]

And these are YHWH's eternal appointed times!
PASSOVER
“And this day shall be unto youfor a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD {Yahweh} throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)
UNLEAVENED BREAD
“And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:17)
SHAVUOT (Feast of Weeks)
“And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute FOREVER in all your dwellings throughout your generations.” (Leviticus 23:21)
YOM KIPPUR
Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute FOREVER throughout your generations in all your dwellings. (Leviticus 23:31)
FEAST OF TABERNACLES (Booths / Sukkot)
And ye shall keep it a feast unto YHWH seven days in the year. It shall be a statute FOREVER in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.(Leviticus 23:41)

Please show us where any of these passages state that these observances were mandatory for gentiles? Gentiles may choose to observe these events but it is not mandatory for gentiles.

Exodus 12:3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household.
Leviticus 23:10 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest
Leviticus 23:21
21 On that same day you are to proclaim a sacred assembly and do no regular work. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.
Leviticus 23:34 "Say to the Israelites: 'On the fifteenth day of the seventh month the LORD's Festival of Tabernacles begins, and it lasts for seven days.
Leviticus 23:41 Celebrate this as a festival to the LORD for seven days each year. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come; celebrate it in the seventh month.
Leviticus 23:42 Live in temporary shelters for seven days: All native-born Israelites are to live in such shelters ​

 

[HARK!]

Please show us where any of these passages state that these observances were mandatory for gentiles? Gentiles may choose to observe these events but it is not mandatory for gentiles.

(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

 

[Der Alte]

(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

What is this supposed to prove? Please explain to me how Rom 2:12 proves that commands given specifically Israelites are binding on gentiles?

 

[HARK!]

What is this supposed to prove? Please explain to me how Rom 2:12 proves that commands given specifically Israelites are binding on gentiles?

Do you really believe that you will enter eternal life outside of covenant?

 

[Der Alte]

Do you really believe that you will enter eternal life outside of covenant?

Acts of the apostles 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
​

 

[HARK!]

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

That sounds awfully legalistic.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.




(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) Mt 22:38
This is the great and foremost precept.

(CLV) Mt 22:39
Yet the second is like it: `You shall be loving your associate as yourself.'

(CLV) Mt 22:40
On these two precepts is hanging the whole law and the prophets."

(CLV) Dt 6:5
So you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.



That's right out of the Torah; but you didn't answer my question.

Do you believe that one will enter eternal life outside of covenant?

Let's try to avoid anymore misdirection tactics. Just a simple yes, or no will suffice.

 

[Dkh587]

That sounds awfully legalistic.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.




(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) Mt 22:38
This is the great and foremost precept.

(CLV) Mt 22:39
Yet the second is like it: `You shall be loving your associate as yourself.'

(CLV) Mt 22:40
On these two precepts is hanging the whole law and the prophets."

(CLV) Dt 6:5
So you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.



That's right out of the Torah; but you didn't answer my question.

Do you believe that one will enter eternal life outside of covenant?

Let's try to avoid anymore misdirection tactics. Just a simple yes, or no will suffice.

The irony of people telling us the law is not to be obeyed, but those same people telling us the #1 commandment is Deuteronomy 6:4, which is a commandment to obey God’s law.

 

[tulc]

(snip)
Christmas is no different than the golden calf.

...I would say if you believe that, you should definitely not celebrate Christmas. On the other hand, I have no problem with it. I'm more of a Romans 14 kind of guy.
tulc(is drinking some very good coffee right now)

 

[HARK!]

Early disdain for Israel:

Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho (Between 138A.D. and 161 A.D.)

We too, would observe your circumcision of the flesh, your Sabbath days, and in a word, all you festivals, if we were not aware of the reason why they were imposed upon you, namely, because of your sins and the hardness of heart.

The custom of circumcising the flesh, handed down from Abraham, was given to you as a distinguishing mark, to set you off from other nations and from us Christians. The purpose of this was that you and only you might suffer the afflictions that are now justly yours; that only your land be desolated, and you cities ruined by fire, that the fruits of you land be eaten by strangers before your very eyes; that not one of you be permitted to enter your city of Jerusalem. Your circumcision of the flesh is the only mark by which you can certainly be distinguished from other men…as I stated before it was by reason of your sins and the sins of your fathers that, among other precepts, God imposed upon you the observence of the sabbath as a mark.

 

[HARK!]

The irony of people telling us the law is not to be obeyed, but those same people telling us the #1 commandment is Deuteronomy 6:4, which is a commandment to obey God’s law.

It does make one wonder.

 

[HARK!]

More contempt for those who follow Yahshua's example:

Ignatius Bishop of Antioch (98-117A.D.) – Epistle to the Magnesians

For if we are still practicing Judaism, we admit that we have not received God’s favor…it is wrong to talk about Jesus Christ and live like Jews. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity.

 

[HARK!]

I was rummaging through my files, when I came across these cute little demonic Astarte coins

:

Constantine worshiped the sun until his dying day.

 

[Der Alte]

That sounds awfully legalistic.
(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.
(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"
(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.
(CLV) Mt 22:38
This is the great and foremost precept.
(CLV) Mt 22:39
Yet the second is like it: `You shall be loving your associate as yourself.'
(CLV) Mt 22:40
On these two precepts is hanging the whole law and the prophets."
(CLV) Dt 6:5
So you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.
(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.
That's right out of the Torah; but you didn't answer my question.
Do you believe that one will enter eternal life outside of covenant?
Let's try to avoid anymore misdirection tactics. Just a simple yes, or no will suffice.

I'm not here to be given the third degree. Do you believe that you have to observe all of the feasts, festivals etc. in the OT to enter eternal life?
Jesus is my Sabbath. Jesus is my Passover etc. If you think you need to be a Jew to enter eternal life then you are in the wrong forum.

 

[Der Alte]

I was rummaging through my files, when I came across these cute little demonic Astarte coins
Constantine worshiped the sun until his dying day.

Prove it.
Of those coins the top one is phony. The other one I can't tell.
The top one has the name of Constantine beginning at the shoulder. The problem is it spells Constantine with a "C." In ancient Greek "C" was the capital sigma equivalent of our letter "s." The first letter should be "K."