Paedobaptism Versus Credobaptism

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Jesus was baptized as an adult. Shouldn't that settle the question?

John 1:6 - There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.
John 1:7 - He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
John 1:8 - He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
John 1:9 - There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
John 1:10 - He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
John 1:11 - He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
John 1:13 - who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:15 - John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
John 1:16 - For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
John 1:17 - For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
John 1:18 - No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 1:19 - This is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?"
John 1:20 - And he confessed and did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ."
John 1:21 - They asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he *said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."
John 1:22 - Then they said to him, "Who are you, so that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?"
John 1:23 - He said, "I am A VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, 'MAKE STRAIGHT THE WAY OF THE LORD,' as Isaiah the prophet said."
John 1:24 - Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.
John 1:25 - They asked him, and said to him, "Why then are you baptizing, if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"
John 1:26 - John answered them saying, "I baptize in water, but among you stands One whom you do not know.
John 1:27 - "It is He who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."
John 1:28 - These things took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
John 1:29 - The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
John 1:30 - "This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'
John 1:31 - "I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water."
John 1:32 - John testified saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.
John 1:33 - "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
John 1:34 - "I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God."
John 1:35 - Again the next day John was standing with two of his disciples,
John 1:36 - and he looked at Jesus as He walked, and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God!" [NASB]


Shouldn't we follow Jesus' example? Being baptized as an adult is a powerful, life-changing experience. (At least it was for me.) I don't remember my baptism as an infant.
 

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This has been discussed many times in the past several years. I started adult live believing in credo-baptism only and migrated to the paedo-baptism position.

It all boils down to how your understand what the Bible teaches or doesn't teach about how God covenants with His people. I would be happy to point you to past discussions if you like.

If your quote in John was believed by all, than we we would all be Baptists but we are not all Baptists.

Later,
Kenith
 
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This has been discussed many times in the past several years. I started adult live believing in credo-baptism only and migrated to the paedo-baptism position.

It all boils down to how your understand what the Bible teaches or doesn't teach about how God covenants with His people. I would be happy to point you to past discussions if you like.


If your quote in John was believed by all, than we we would all be Baptists but we are not all Baptists.


Later,

Kenith

I'm not a Baptist either. I am a non-Denominational, 5-pt Calvinist, Reformed Christian. If you don't think there's anymore room for discussion, I can go ahead and close this thread. I have avoided getting into the baptism discussion till now. But an article I read that mentioned following Jesus' own decision to get baptized when he was ready to start his public ministry really resonated with me. That's why I started this thread.

I did not start this thread to dredge up tired, well-worn arguments on the subject. I wanted to look at the subject in a fresh way, a respectful way, that recognizes heaven will contain infant baptized, adult baptized, and some who are not baptized at all. I have two children in heaven. They died in my wife's womb before birth and were not baptized. I do not doubt I will meet them in the afterlife. Some may disagree with that opinion. In any event, there is an ultimate truth to be learned here, not a relative truth for us to fill in the blanks. I was baptized in the RCC as an infant, and as an adult in a non-denominational church. Full immersion was a life changing experience for me. I recommend it to all to experience.

God bless you Kenith, I highly respect you and your opinions, even if they differ from mine.
 
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kenrapoza

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Our baptism is not Jesus' baptism - nor are we baptized by John in anticipation of Jesus, he already came and fulfilled all righteousness...

Jesus did not "decide" to get baptized because it was a life-changing experience, nor are we the anticipated Messiah. As Christians, our role is not to try to mimic everything he did, but to proceed as he commanded and follow his teaching and the teaching of the apostles. The question is not "what would Jesus do?" but "what did Jesus preach and teach us to do?".
 
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Jesus was baptized as an adult. Shouldn't that settle the question?

John 1:6 - There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.
John 1:7 - He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
John 1:8 - He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
John 1:9 - There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
John 1:10 - He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
John 1:11 - He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
John 1:13 - who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:15 - John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
John 1:16 - For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
John 1:17 - For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
John 1:18 - No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 1:19 - This is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?"
John 1:20 - And he confessed and did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ."
John 1:21 - They asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he *said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."
John 1:22 - Then they said to him, "Who are you, so that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?"
John 1:23 - He said, "I am A VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, 'MAKE STRAIGHT THE WAY OF THE LORD,' as Isaiah the prophet said."
John 1:24 - Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.
John 1:25 - They asked him, and said to him, "Why then are you baptizing, if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"
John 1:26 - John answered them saying, "I baptize in water, but among you stands One whom you do not know.
John 1:27 - "It is He who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."
John 1:28 - These things took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
John 1:29 - The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
John 1:30 - "This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'
John 1:31 - "I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water."
John 1:32 - John testified saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.
John 1:33 - "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
John 1:34 - "I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God."
John 1:35 - Again the next day John was standing with two of his disciples,
John 1:36 - and he looked at Jesus as He walked, and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God!" [NASB]


Shouldn't we follow Jesus' example? Being baptized as an adult is a powerful, life-changing experience. (At least it was for me.) I don't remember my baptism as an infant.
So are all males to be circumcised on the eighth day of life as well?

MORAL: Don't confuse narrative with doctrine.
 
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Our baptism is not Jesus' baptism - nor are we baptized by John in anticipation of Jesus, he already came and fulfilled all righteousness...
Mark 16:16 - "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. [NASB]

Jesus' words, not mine.

Jesus did not "decide" to get baptized because it was a life-changing experience, nor are we the anticipated Messiah.
So are you saying Jesus was predestined to do what he did, that he wasn't Sovereign over His own actions? I'm not arguing that He did not place Himself subordinate to His Father will, mind you.

As Christians, our role is not to try to mimic everything he did, but to proceed as he commanded and follow his teaching and the teaching of the apostles. The question is not "what would Jesus do?" but "what did Jesus preach and teach us to do?".
See Mark 16:16 above.
 
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heymikey80

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Jesus was baptized as an adult. Shouldn't that settle the question?
* * *
Shouldn't we follow Jesus' example? Being baptized as an adult is a powerful, life-changing experience. (At least it was for me.) I don't remember my baptism as an infant.
Abraham was circumcised as an adult. Shouldn't that have settled the question of circumcision? Yet God commanded differently.

That was the sign of faith. It was applied to infants. It was confirmed in their faithful response, later.
 
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Abraham was circumcised as an adult. Shouldn't that have settled the question of circumcision? Yet God commanded differently.

That was the sign of faith. It was applied to infants. It was confirmed in their faithful response, later.

Once again, that was the Mosaic Law. I was circumcised as an infant so it really doesn't matter to me. The New Testament speaks about circumcision at length. I refer you to that for further information.
 
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heymikey80

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Once again, that was the Mosaic Law. I was circumcised as an infant so it really doesn't matter to me. The New Testament speaks about circumcision at length. I refer you to that for further information.
Abraham preceded the Mosaic Law by centuries. I refer you to Romans 4, noting that for everyone but Abraham, Paul is talking about infant-circumcision.
 
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When Jesus was on earth, He did lots of things we don't do. Are you ready to die on a cross?

Interesting...Reformed Catholic...or is that an oxymoron? Anyway, do I sense sarcasm? Seems to me OP is seeking genuine discussion with Reformed believers, not sarcastic one liners outside of Reformed theology..maybe I'm wrong.
 
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Abraham preceded the Mosaic Law by centuries. I refer you to Romans 4, noting that for everyone but Abraham, Paul is talking about infant-circumcision.
Yes, Abraham preceded the Mosaic Law and Melchizedek preceded Abraham, or at least, Abraham recognized Melchizedek's authority.

I refer you to Romans 2:25.

Romans 2:25 - For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. [NASB]

The whole argument is placed in the context of the Mosaic Law. Since we are no longer under the Mosaic Law, circumcision and uncircumcision are meaningless terms, terms not to be argued over. We are Christians, are we not?
 
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Interesting...Reformed Catholic...or is that an oxymoron? Anyway, do I sense sarcasm? Seems to me OP is seeking genuine discussion with Reformed believers, not sarcastic one liners outside of Reformed theology..maybe I'm wrong.
You are absolutely correct. I do seek a genuine discussion with my brothers and sisters of Reformed beliefs. If I say something wrong, I expect and desire correction -- so my understanding is in line with the Bible's teaching, not Rome's.
 
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AMR

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Our baptism is not Jesus' baptism - nor are we baptized by John in anticipation of Jesus, he already came and fulfilled all righteousness...

Jesus did not "decide" to get baptized because it was a life-changing experience, nor are we the anticipated Messiah. As Christians, our role is not to try to mimic everything he did, but to proceed as he commanded and follow his teaching and the teaching of the apostles. The question is not "what would Jesus do?" but "what did Jesus preach and teach us to do?".
Indeed.

AMR
 
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Yes, Abraham preceded the Mosaic Law and Melchizedek preceded Abraham, or at least, Abraham recognized Melchizedek's authority.

I refer you to Romans 2:25.

Romans 2:25 - For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. [NASB]

The whole argument is placed in the context of the Mosaic Law. Since we are no longer under the Mosaic Law, circumcision and uncircumcision are meaningless terms, terms not to be argued over. We are Christians, are we not?
I refer you to Romans 4:12 -- "... and to make Abraham the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised."

Paul's argument in context of Moses is that everyone is condemned.

Paul's argument in the context of Abraham, is that everyone with faith is justified -- but Paul points to circumcision as the sign of that faith.
 
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