Outer Darkness (LDS Version)

[drstevej]

Which "outer darkness" has the weeping and gnashing of teeth? Both?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Which "outer darkness" has the weeping and gnashing of teeth? Both?

Quite possibly. I doubt we will ever find out for certain because the sources that PhoebeAnn has posted seem quite muddled on the topic. What we really need is a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator to make it all clear and plain for us.

 

[Rescued One]

Which "outer darkness" has the weeping and gnashing of teeth? Both?

I would say both based on the fact that between the death and resurrection, some are convinced to repent and no doubt the conviction is brought about by the anguish the person suffers during that time.

But I don't think I understand why people are weeping when they are resurrected and assigned to a kingdom of glory. LDS claim that each person gets what he wants.

SORROW IN RESURRECTION IF NO ETERNAL MARRIAGE.
These young people who seem to be so happy now, when they rise in the resurrection-and find themselves in the condition in which they will find themselves-then there will be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and bitterness of soul; and they have brought it upon themselves because of their lack of faith and understanding of the gospel, and from, I am sorry to say, the encouragement they have received many times from their own parents….
Of course there are people who are not worthy to go to the temple, and therefore should not go to the temple. No one should go to the temple except those who are worthy, as the Lord has said, "who [have] overcome by faith," and are cleansed and are just and true. Then they can go to the temple. If they are unclean, if they lack the faith, they had better stay out until they get the faith and are clean.
Joseph Fielding Smith, D of S, 2:60

 

[Ran77]

I wonder how the unrepentant can be forgiven in Mormonism . . .

How are the unrepentant forgiven in non-LDS Christianity? Are they forgiven? Is everyone forgiven? Is there actually no Hell for the unrepentant to go?


:o

 

[Ran77]

Quite possibly. I doubt we will ever find out for certain because the sources that PhoebeAnn has posted seem quite muddled on the topic. What we really need is a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator to make it all clear and plain for us.

This struck me as sort of funny. I imagine that none of the LDS on this forum find the material muddled. You mention needing a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator to clear the issue up. The funny part being that someone who rejects the Prophet mentions needing one and admits to a muddled understanding that comes from not having a Prophet. I guess you really do need one.

 

[Ran77]

Which "outer darkness" has the weeping and gnashing of teeth? Both?

I imagine both. A discussion of weeping and gnashing of teeth could be intersting.

 

[bbbbbbb]

What I am hearing from you is that folks in the lower kingdoms will be happy, but not really, really happy like the folks in the CK. Is this an accurate understanding?

 

[Ran77]

What I am hearing from you is that folks in the lower kingdoms will be happy, but not really, really happy like the folks in the CK. Is this an accurate understanding?

It's close enough.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It's close enough.

Thanks. So, the happy people in the lower kingdoms nevertheless weep and wail and gnash their teeth? That doesn't sound like happiness to me.

 

[Ran77]

Thanks. So, the happy people in the lower kingdoms nevertheless weep and wail and gnash their teeth? That doesn't sound like happiness to me.

Okay. I'm fine with it sounding that way to you. I'm used to the comments of the LDS being spit back at them in a way that has been twisted in one way or another. I'll just take this as an indication that I'm done here, for now.

 

[drstevej]

Thanks. So, the happy people in the lower kingdoms nevertheless weep and wail and gnash their teeth? That doesn't sound like happiness to me.

That is an interesting point. Sounds contradictory.

 

[twob4me]

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[bbbbbbb]

~~~~~~~~~~~~MOD HAT ON!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This thread has gone through a clean up. It is quite possible a further cleaning will take place. If you notice a post of yours missing it was removed in the clean up. Please remember the Board Rules when posting. Especially the Flame rule:



Please take note of the part I highlighted in Red. You should be addressing the context of the post NOT the poster. The "you" comments are making the post personal and are not acceptable under the Flame rule.

Documentation of the thread clean is HERE for staff only.

~~~~~~~~~~~~MOD HAT OFF!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you. I appreciate your efforts. I try my best to stay on topic, but it is not always easy.

 

[Rescued One]

I think it's ridiculous to claim that there are two outer darknesses.

 

[drstevej]

A lot of LDSology seems confused and conflicted as I read it.

 

[Rescued One]

A lot of LDSology seems confused and conflicted as I read it.

It appeared to me that Joseph Smith kept adding to it as he went along, and then the internet came into existence and when people began to question Mormonism, the LDS apologists started scrambling to make the contradictions fit. But, IMO, they still don't fit.

 

[drstevej]

It appeared to me that Joseph Smith kept adding to it as he went along, and then the internet came into existence and when people began to question Mormonism, the LDS apologists started scrambling to make the contradictions fit. But, IMO, they still don't fit.

It is true that the net placed a lot more LDS materials in the hands of those outside the church. I had to go through a process to get a copy of D&C many years ago. The LDS who sold it to me were really hesitant. After I read it I understood.

 

[jackcv]

Wonderful discussion going on here. Thank you.

I recently read DC 88, verse 32 with new eyes, having read or heard it many times previously. It's about outer darkness, hell. It tells us, I think, how people who are consigned to that place feel about being there.

"32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received."
​

It looks pretty clear to me. Unequivocal, really. God even repeats the word enjoy twice. That suggests to me that either He was suffering from writer's block or wanted to emphasize it.

Are there animals or people that enjoy the dangerous, predatory environment of the jungle at night? Who play with their victims? Being in their place would be hell for me, and probably you, but some like it. "One man's trash is another's treasure." Being in heaven with God and His angels looking over their shoulders, keeping them on a short leash (as they are now), and urging them to repent and be nice would be hell for them. But I want it, and I surely want to be saved from them.

Could it be that God's eternal Plan of Happiness actually means happiness for all of His children, the good, the bad and the really ugly? What sort of God would promote such a program?

 

[jackcv]

jackcv

 

[Der Alte]

It is true that the net placed a lot more LDS materials in the hands of those outside the church. I had to go through a process to get a copy of D&C many years ago. The LDS who sold it to me were really hesitant. After I read it I understood.

I acquired my copy of D&C in 1978 or 79, from a former Mormon who was at that time a deacon in our church. I also acquired another book that the LDS does not want to get in the hands of non-LDS, "A Marevelous Work and a Wonder," 1950, by LeGrand Richard, "a Presiding Bishop and Ordained One of the Twelve Apostles, offers an outline prepared to assist missionaries in their study and presentation of the gospel in a systematic and logical manner."