Outer Calling And Inner Calling.......

[Van]

Calvinism uses an endless string of names to bolster the fiction of the inner call. Irresistible grace, regeneration before faith, the gift of faith, etc, etc. When God accepts our response to the call of the gospel, then our calling to salvation is complete, we are called, and collectively are "the called."

 

[Van]

Election means being chosen. When God chooses us, He elects us, and we become the chosen or elect.

 

[cygnusx1]

Election means being chosen. When God chooses us, He elects us, and we become the chosen or elect.

SHOCK , I NEVER KNEW THAT !

 

[Van]

The inner call is a fiction, an invention of men. When God accepts our response to the call of the gospel, then our calling to salvation is complete, we are called, and collectively are "the called."

 

[cygnusx1]

The inner call is a fiction, an invention of men. When God accepts our response to the call of the gospel, then our calling to salvation is complete, we are called, and collectively are "the called."

it has been shown that van's position is unsupportable , and that all that he can now do is repeat himself . repeating errors does not make them true , compairing scripture with scripture shows a calling that is distinct from the general gospel call , otherwise everyone will be justified and glorified , but they are not.


everyone knows that placing election after calling is laughable , for once someone is called why would they then need electing ...... logic is given us to save us from wreckless thinking.

a denial of the inner call is hostlity based uopon prejudice , nothing more.

 

[Van]

Scripture says many are called but few are chosen. It does not say, few are chosen, but to create confusion, many are called to create the impression of opportunity.
Such a view is wreckless thinking and is unsupportable.

Lets look at yet another passage that teaches this truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14. In verse 13, Paul tells us that God has chosen us by the sanctification of the Spirit, God set us apart by spiritually placing us in Christ, and then indwelting us with the Holy Spirit. And He chose us because of our faith in the Truth, Christ Jesus.

And then in verse 14, Paul rams the truth home by saying that we were called through the gospel of Christ, that we might gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Again and again, in every passage the same truth is taught, we are called by the gospel, we respond, God credits our faith as righteousness, our faith in the Truth, and then He chooses us and sets us apart by the sanctification of the Spirit.

 

[cygnusx1]

1Cor.1

[1] Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
[2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
[3] Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
[4] I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
[5] That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
[6] Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
[7] So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[8] Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[9] God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
[10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
[11] For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
[12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
[13] Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
[14] I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
[15] Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
[16] And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
[17] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[19] For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
[20] Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
[21] For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
[22] For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
[23] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
[25] Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
[26] For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
[27] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
[28] And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
[29] That no flesh should glory in his presence.
[30] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
[31] That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


certainly the call envisioned here v24-26 is no general outer call , in fact the outer call is said to have not one but two operative qualities ; saving and destroying , to save those who believe and to destroy the wisdom of the wise , to lay before men a stumbling block , for to these that perish the cross is foolishness , and men don't choose what appears foolish , but only what seems prudent....... the general call is not limited to the elect but is targeted at all men in general including the rich wise and powerful , contrast that with the effectual call , (Romans 8) this calling is joined with the election of individuals and is always effective. .... hence it is not a general call.

have you made your calling certain ................if yes , how did you do it ? did you merely say to yourself , "oh i remember hearing the Gospel ? whoever doubted your memory

 

[Philothei]

So many verses .... so little time...hmmm Again it is a matter of your interpretation. Why do not just trust your interpretation to Calvin versus the Fathers who lived so much closer to the Gospel...and actually radified the NT ?? Beats me .....

Have a pleasant day...and get rid of that anger and bold writing it is unhealthy for you.

God bless,
Philothei

 

[Van]

Folks, in 1 Corinthians 1:1-2, Paul says he was called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and he is addressing the saints - those whose response to the call of the gospel was credited as righteousness, and were set apart, sanctified, by being spiritually placed in Christ. Absolutely no support for the fiction of the inner call.

 

[Van]

2 Peter 1:10: Therefore brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble.

Note that first we are called and then we are chosen from among those called. Many are called but few are chosen. So the order from scripture is first we hear the eternal call of the gospel, then we respond, then God credits our faith as righteousness, then God chooses us and sets us apart. Good works does not provide salvation, they demonstrate salvation. Thus by being diligent in good works, we make certain of God's calling and choosing us for salvation.

 

[Philothei]

Folks, in 1 Corinthians 1:1-2, Paul says he was called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and he is addressing the saints - those whose response to the call of the gospel was credited as righteousness, and were set apart, sanctified, by being spiritually placed in Christ. Absolutely no support for the fiction of the inner call.


Also though those who are "justified" living a just living will enter the kingdom of God.
Inner-outer circle.... why use this terminology and 16 century theology... while you could use for interpretation the fathers? The ones who lived in the time of the NT?

Christ called all, the ones who respond they are the "elected" the saved. They are also the ones who are "righteous" by their good living.

God at the same time has forknowlede of the saved but at the same time He does not predestine..In His mysterious ways He is capable of doing just that.

God bless,
Philothei

 

[Thekla]

God calls the elect and they do not come ??

thats what they were doing , so they didn't "hear/listen"

 

[Thekla]

Donald Grey Barnhouse helps with the distinction between the general call of the gospel and the effectual call to salvation. “If men heed no more than the outward call, they become members of the visible church. If the inward call is heard in our hearts, we become members of the invisible church. The first call unites us merely to a group of professing members; but the inward call unites us to Christ Himself, and to all that have been born again.
“The outward call may bring with it a certain intellectual knowledge of the truth; the inward call brings us the faith of the heart, the hope which anchors us forever to Christ and the love which must ever draw us back to Him who first loved us. The one can end in formalism, the other in true life. The outward call may curb the tendencies of the old nature and keep a soul in outward morality; the inward call will cure the plague that is in us and bring us on to triumph in Christ” (God’s Heirs: Exposition of Bible Doctrines . . . , vol. 7, pp. 171, 172).


http://www.abideinchrist.com/selah/aug5.html

don't both forms of "call" require that the "called" actually listen ?

 

[cygnusx1]

So many verses .... so little time...hmmm Again it is a matter of your interpretation. Why do not just trust your interpretation to Calvin versus the Fathers who lived so much closer to the Gospel...and actually radified the NT ?? Beats me .....

Have a pleasant day...and get rid of that anger and bold writing it is unhealthy for you.

God bless,
Philothei

anger ?

your tradition stops with the fathers and fails to recognise many doctrines took years to flesh out , everything you write will be written from the orthodox ; we are the only ones right , we are the true church the full truth resides in us rhetoric , it is all i ever here from orthodox believers , which is always confrontational no matter what doctrinal subject is under investigation/study !

there are many doctrines that even now are being worked out years after the Reformation .......... no-one has a monopoly on truth.

 

[cygnusx1]

notice throughout this thread everything is more or less party based , few wish to see what others might have , it makes such hard work of sharing when the first thing many look at is this icon first

 

[cygnusx1]

2 Peter 1:10: Therefore brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble.

Note that first we are called and then we are chosen from among those called. Many are called but few are chosen. So the order from scripture is first we hear the eternal call of the gospel, then we respond, then God credits our faith as righteousness, then God chooses us and sets us apart. Good works does not provide salvation, they demonstrate salvation. Thus by being diligent in good works, we make certain of God's calling and choosing us for salvation.

this is nothing more than a repeat .

truth is election goes before the call .... Eph 1 .

 

[savedbygrace57]

phil says

those whose response to the call of the gospel was credited as righteousness

A false doctrine here , not of God..The elect dont have to do anything to be credited with Christ righteousness it is a free gift to the elect..

rom 5

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Christ confirmed this imputed righteousness at the cross

2 cor 5

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

All of the elect have been given faith by God to believe that their righteousness is from christ..Faith recieves this righteousness to the consciousness of the elect individual not earn it..

 

[savedbygrace57]

cyg says

the point is far from mute , you only can see one call , the scripture speaks of a general call , are you not aware that God calls all men ?

It is mute, what does God call all men to ?

 

[cygnusx1]

cyg says
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It is mute, what does God call all men to ?

REPENTANCE-FAITH-SALVATION

 

[savedbygrace57]

thats what they were doing , so they didn't "hear/listen"

They didnt hear or listen because God did not give them ears to hear..

matt 13

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

For those who dont hear the call , its not given to them[by grace] to hear..

Contrary to you religon which is based all on humanism..its not of God..