Our Lady of Guadalupe

[Marilyn C]

The verses you quoted don't support your claim that the Apostles are not part of the body of Christ,l in any way, shape or form. What they do show is that the Apostles have a special place within the Church

Hi prodromos,

That is a start, telling us something about your view, however you have not explained how those verses don`t support my claim.

I believe you need to do some more work so we can understand how you get your view and how what I say is not supported.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[prodromos]

That is a start, telling us something about your view, however you have not explained how those verses don`t support my claim.

You haven't yet given any explanation as to how those verses 'somehow' support your claim. Thus far it is your unsupported and novel opinion, something I have never heard taught in any Church. Why should we give any creedence to your opinion?

 

[Marilyn C]

The verses you quoted don't support your claim that the Apostles are not part of the body of Christ,l in any way, shape or form. What they do show is that the Apostles have a special place within the Church

Hi prodromos,

So are you referring to the post I made to Eph45? If so then what specific point are you referring to?

 

[Marilyn C]

You haven't yet given any explanation as to how those verses 'somehow' support your claim. Thus far it is your unsupported and novel opinion, something I have never heard taught in any Church. Why should we give any creedence to your opinion?

The same question as above.

 

[prodromos]

Hi prodromos,

So are you referring to the post I made to Eph45? If so then what specific point are you referring to?

I am referring to the responses you made to me.

 

[Marilyn C]

I am referring to the responses you made to me.

Hi prodromos,

This is what I have said to you.

Hi prodromos,

Easy to say but how about doing some work and showing why you believe that.

2 Tim. 2: 15 tells us to `be diligent to present yourself approved of God, a worker who does not need t be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth...`



Hi prodromos,

That is a start, telling us something about your view, however you have not explained how those verses don`t support my claim.

I believe you need to do some more work so we can understand how you get your view and how what I say is not supported.


Hi prodromos,

So are you referring to the post I made to Eph45? If so then what specific point are you referring to?



So what are you referring to?

 

[prodromos]

Hi prodromos,

This is what I have said to you.

Hi prodromos,

Easy to say but how about doing some work and showing why you believe that.

2 Tim. 2: 15 tells us to `be diligent to present yourself approved of God, a worker who does not need t be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth...`



Hi prodromos,

That is a start, telling us something about your view, however you have not explained how those verses don`t support my claim.

I believe you need to do some more work so we can understand how you get your view and how what I say is not supported.


Hi prodromos,

So are you referring to the post I made to Eph45? If so then what specific point are you referring to?



So what are you referring to?

My response to you was in regards to you quoting Matt. 19: 28 and Rev. 21: 14 as support for your claims. Your responses to me have not addressed that.

 

[Marilyn C]

My response to you was in regards to you quoting Matt. 19: 28 and Rev. 21: 14 as support for your claims. Your responses to me have not addressed that.

Hi prodromos,

Now I understand what you are asking. I was talking to Eph45, there.
So Matt. 19: 28, the Lord is talking to his disciples and saying -

`you who have followed me will also sit on 12 thrones, judging the tribes of Israel.`

And we see the fulfillment in Rev. 21: 14, `Now the wall of the city, (New Jerusalem) had 12 foundations, and on them were the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.

I think that is clear. The Lord is showing that the 12 disciples/apostles will rule and reign in the New Jerusalem.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[prodromos]

Hi prodromos,

Now I understand what you are asking. I was talking to Eph45, there.
So Matt. 19: 28, the Lord is talking to his disciples and saying -

`you who have followed me will also sit on 12 thrones, judging the tribes of Israel.`

And we see the fulfillment in Rev. 21: 14, `Now the wall of the city, (New Jerusalem) had 12 foundations, and on them were the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.

I think that is clear. The Lord is showing that the 12 disciples/apostles will rule and reign in the New Jerusalem.

regards, Marilyn.

Yes, so how do you determine from that, that the Apostles are not in the Church, not in the body of Christ?

 

[Marilyn C]

Yes, so how do you determine from that, that the Apostles are not in the Church, not in the bidy of Christ?

Hi prodromos,

Thank you for asking. So Jerusalem.

The earthly Jerusalem had two parts, Mount Zion where king David ruled from and the city part.

The heavenly Jerusalem also has two parts - Mount Zion and the city.

`you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem...` (Heb. 12: 22)

MOUNT ZION.

Then we know that God the Father has appointed His Son to the rulership on Mount Zion.

`I have set my King on my holy hill of Mount Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

The overcomers, (the Body of Christ) have been promised to rule with the Lord on His throne.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Thus we see that the Body of Christ will rule with the Lord n His throne on Mount Zion in the angelic realm, the third heaven.

THE CITY.

We are told that the city part of Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God.

`Then I, John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God..`(Rev. 21: 2)

We are also told that the Old Testament saints looked for that city and were promised it as their inheritance.

`God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

And we have been told that the 12 disciples/apostles will be the rulers in that city. (Matt. 19: 28, Rev. 21: 14)

So we realise that God has different rulership planned in different realms but all under Christ.

The Body of Christ on Christ`s throne in the highest realm.

The 12 apostles on 12 thrones in the city, in the Universal realm.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[prodromos]

The Apostles are the foundation of the Church, along with the Prophets, with Christ as the cornerstone. The foundation is an integral part of the building, it is not seperate from the building. The Apostles are very much in the Church and very much in the body of Christ.
Ephesians 2:19-22

So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.​

 

[Marilyn C]

The Apostles are the foundation of the Church, along with the Prophets, with Christ as the cornerstone. The foundation is an integral part of the building, it is not seperate from the building. The Apostles are very much in the Church and very much in the body of Christ.
Ephesians 2:19-22

So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.​

Hi prodromos,

Important scriptures there. And what is the foundation of the apostles and prophets? - the revelation that Jesus is the Head of His Body. The Lord doesn`t build upon man, but upon Himself -

`For no other foundation can anyone lay that which is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. ` (1 Cor. 3: 11)

So who gave the Church the `whole counsel of God?` the apostle Paul.

`For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27)

Who are other apostles and prophets? `Paul, Silvanus and Timothy......as apostles of Christ, ...we were gentle among you...` (1 Thess. 1:1, 6 & 7)

`And in those days prophets came from Jerusalem to Antioch. Then one of them, named Agabus stood up...` (Acts 11: 27 & 28)

These apostles and prophets that gave the revelation of Jesus as head of the church, were given by the Lord when He ascended to the Father. They were to equip the church for the work of the ministry, (serving).

`And He (Jesus) gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ till we all come to the unity of the faith...` (Eph. 4: 11 - 13)

So we see those apostles and prophets the Lord gave after He ascended were for building up the body of Christ.


So what about the 12 apostles? Well we see that they have been promised to rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. They did not have a revelation of the Body of Christ.

Peter did not go to the Gentiles till the Holy Spirit had to get him to see that the Gentiles could also receive the Spirit. (Acts 11)

Peter got some of the gentile believers to act like Jews, bringing them under the law. He didn`t have any idea of the Body of Christ, the church. (Gal. 2: 11 - 16)

Peter had trouble understanding the revelation that Paul talked about. (2 Peter 3: 16)


Thus we see that the 12 apostles were sent to Israel to give them the truth that Jesus is Lord and Christ, (Acts 2: 36) and would finally rule over them.

The apostles and prophets that the Lord gave after He ascended were to build up the Body of Christ with the revelation that Jesus is the Head of the Body.

`And he put all things under His feet and gave Him to be Head over all things to the Church which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. `(Eph. 1: 22 & 23)

 

[prodromos]

Important scriptures there. And what is the foundation of the apostles and prophets? - the revelation that Jesus is the Head of His Body. The Lord doesn`t build upon man, but upon Himself -

`For no other foundation can anyone lay that which is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. ` (1 Cor. 3: 11)

And thus you attempt to nullify God's word. It isn't either/or but rather both.

 

[Marilyn C]

And thus you attempt to nullify God's word. It isn't either/or but rather both.

So is the foundation of the Body of Christ, men? or the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[prodromos]

So is the foundation of the Body of Christ, men? or the Lord Jesus Christ?

Scripture has already answered you.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Galatians 4



22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not:
for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

[Marilyn C]

Scripture has already answered you.

Hi prodromos.

So is the Body of Christ`s foundation - man or Christ?

Man - is corrupt, mortal and unworthy. Thus not possible to build upon man.

Christ - is omnipotent, omnipresent & omniscient. He lived a perfect life and gave Himself as a sacrifice for sin. He is worthy. Thus He is the very foundation of His Body.

`For NO OTHER FOUNDATION can anyone lay than that WHICH IS LAID, which is JESUS CHRIST.`(1 Cor. 3: 11)

 

[prodromos]

Man - is corrupt, mortal and unworthy. Thus not possible to build upon man.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.

 

[Marilyn C]

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.

Hi prodomos,

Great scripture and truth there. However our bodies are still mortal and corrupt and thus need changing. Not something to build on.

`For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised incorruptible. and we shall be changed. For this corruption must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality.` (1 Cor. 15: 52 & 53)

And so we note that we are ÌN CHRIST`who is the foundation of His Body.

 

[prodromos]

And so we note that we are ÌN CHRIST`who is the foundation of His Body.

As are the Apostles.