Our Lady of Guadalupe

[Marilyn C]

since you ignore what scripture I posted, where does that leave you?

I didn`t ignore, it is just you didn`t understand my reply. I will go further then. Your scriptures -

1 Cor 12:13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free: and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink.

Romans 6:3 Know you not that all we who are baptized in Christ Jesus are baptized in his death?

And when were we baptised into His Body, in His death? Yes when the Lord ascended to the Father`s right hand and sent His Holy Spirit to `set` us in His Body.

`But now God has set the members each one of them, in the Body just as he pleased.` (1 Cor. 12: 18)

And we know that the Holy Spirit is still working in the Body in our lives. Praise Him.

 

[concretecamper]

I didn`t ignore

yes you did

is just you didn`t understand my reply.

none of us understand your scripture interpretation either.

I will go further

great

1 Cor 12:13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free: and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink.

Romans 6:3 Know you not that all we who are baptized in Christ Jesus are baptized in his death?

thx for reposting the scriptures I posted.

And when were we baptised into His Body, in His death? Yes when the Lord ascended to the Father`s right hand and sent His Holy Spirit to `set` us in Body.

no, Paul use "in Christ" and "One Body" interchangeably. Dont argue with me, argue with Paul.

 

[Marilyn C]

no, Paul use "in Christ" and "One Body" interchangeably. Dont argue with me, argue with Paul.

I`m not arguing just discussing scripture with you & others.

So let`s see if what you say is true. You say Paul uses the word interchangeably.

` God...having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather in one all things IN CHRIST, both of which are in heaven and which are on earth - IN CHRIST.` (Eph. 1: 9 & 10)

So according to you the words IN CHRIST can be IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

So...`He might gather in one all things IN THE BODY OF CHRIST both of which are in heaven and which are on the earth - IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.`

I don`t think so cc.

 

[prodromos]

And BTW as you are not omniscient, (all knowing) then your statement `no church that I know...` is no evidence to support your view.

The Eastern Orthodox don't, the Oriental Orthodox don't, the Catholics don't, the Anglicans don't, the Methodists don't, the Baptists don't, the Lutherans don't. I am familiar enough with their theologies to know this with certainty. The above Churches cover the vast majority of christendom over the ages.
You on the other hand have not named one Church which teaches what you have been claiming. All the ancient heresies based their beliefs on erroneous interpretations of Scripture. Their claims to understand the Scriptures are no different from yours.
I'm not going to waste time refuting your erroneous claims. It is enough to know that it was never taught by the Church in 2000 years. It takes an awful amount of pride to imagine that you have discovered an understanding of Scripture that was missed by all of the theological giants of the Church for 2000 years.

 

[Marilyn C]

The Eastern Orthodox don't, the Oriental Orthodox don't, the Catholics don't, the Anglicans don't, the Methodists don't, the Baptists don't, the Lutherans don't. I am familiar enough with their theologies to know this with certainty. The above Churches cover the vast majority of christendom over the ages.
You on the other hand have not named one Church which teaches what you have been claiming. All the ancient heresies based their beliefs on erroneous interpretations of Scripture. Their claims to understand the Scriptures are no different from yours.
I'm not going to waste time refuting your erroneous claims. It is enough to know that it was never taught by the Church in 2000 years. It takes an awful amount of pride to imagine that you have discovered an understanding of Scripture that was missed by all of the theological giants of the Church for 2000 years.

Now cc, remember what the Lord said - `However when He the Spirit of Truth, has come he will guide you into all truth...` (John 16: 13)

And the apostle Paul told his disciples that when he had departed (died) that `savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 29 & 30)

Thus from the very beginning we see that error came in and has continued to this very day. So I do understand your caution regarding error. Then we see that the Lord has sent the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth.

Now if you know church history you will see that those denominations came amid much persecution by the last denomination and even people martyred because they believed in eg. faith and not by works, (Lutherans)holy living and not church membership, (Methodists) water baptism, (Baptists) & so on.

For you see those `battles` of truth have been played out, but the Body of Christ has not yet come to full maturity of faith, (Eph. 4: 11) so that there is still more clarification of truth by the Holy Spirit.

Thus discussion, without accusations & attacking, is important.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[prodromos]

Now cc, remember what the Lord said - `However when He the Spirit of Truth, has come he will guide you into all truth...` (John 16: 13)

The "you" here is plural. Christ is speaking to His disciples as a group, and we see that promise fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.

And the apostle Paul told his disciples that when he had departed (died) that `savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 29 & 30)

We've seen that played out in history with the Arian heresy, the Nestorian heresy and the Macedonian heresy to name a few, but each one was defeated in turn since Christ promised of His Church in Matthew 16:18 that, "the gates of Hades will not prevail against it". The result of those theological battles is the agreed statement of faith known as the Nicene-Constantinopolian creed which you must assent to in order to post in the Christians only parts of this forum.

Thus from the very beginning we see that error came in and has continued to this very day. So I do understand your caution regarding error.

Unfortunately there are many today, who leaning on their own understanding, repeat the same errors as the early heresies, but it is not true to say those errors have continued to this day

Then we see that the Lord has sent the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth.

The Church, not individuals.

Now if you know church history you will see that those denominations came amid much persecution by the last denomination and even people martyred because they believed in eg. faith and not by works, (Lutherans)holy living and not church membership, (Methodists) water baptism, (Baptists) & so on.

I do know history, probably a lot more than you seeing as your focus reflects only the West.

For you see those `battles` of truth have been played out, but the Body of Christ has not yet come to full maturity of faith, (Eph. 4: 11) so that there is still more clarification of truth by the Holy Spirit.

The Church is fully matured. The major heresies were defeated centuries ago.

 

[concretecamper]

So...`He might gather in one all things IN THE BODY OF CHRIST both of which are in heaven and which are on the earth - IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.`

perfect example to prove my point! Thank you. The Body of Christ is comprised of His saints in Heaven and the saints on earth.

I don`t think so cc.

like I said, argue with Paul, not me. I'll follow Christ, you can follow your opinion.

 

[Eloy Craft]

from the very beginning we see that error came in and has continued to this very day. /

Marilyn,
by this do you mean there no longer an expression of faith in Christ that is free from error?

 

[Marilyn C]

The "you" here is plural. Christ is speaking to His disciples as a group, and we see that promise fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.

We've seen that played out in history with the Arian heresy, the Nestorian heresy and the Macedonian heresy to name a few, but each one was defeated in turn since Christ promised of His Church in Matthew 16:18 that, "the gates of Hades will not prevail against it". The result of those theological battles is the agreed statement of faith known as the Nicene-Constantinopolian creed which you must assent to in order to post in the Christians only parts of this forum.

Unfortunately there are many today, who leaning on their own understanding, repeat the same errors as the early heresies, but it is not true to say those errors have continued to this day

The Church, not individuals.

I do know history, probably a lot more than you seeing as your focus reflects only the West.

The Church is fully matured. The major heresies were defeated centuries ago.

Hi prodromos,

Yes a wonderful creed that has stood the test of time. Perhaps if I say what we both can agree on, (I think) - salvation through Christ, holy living, baptism, infilling of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit`s gifts, (1 Cor. 12: 7 - 11) the Lord`s ministries, (Eph. 4: 11).

So what are we disagreeing on? I believe it is the different inheritances of different groups, the eternal purposes through Christ.

Let`s have a look at what the Holy Spirit says through the Apostle Paul to the Ephesians on that topic of maturity of the Body of Christ.

`He who descended is also the One who ascended far above the heavens, that He might fill all things. And He gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for edifying the Body of Christ,

till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

that we should no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

but speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head - Christ - from whom the whole Body joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the Body for the edifying of itself in love.` (Eph. 4: 10 - 16)

So ....are we speaking `in love` as we discuss?

Has the Body come to maturity, `unity of the faith and of the knowledge of God, to a perfect/mature man?`

Are there still `winds of doctrine` that believers are being `tossed to and fro,` by?

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

perfect example to prove my point! Thank you. The Body of Christ is comprised of His saints in Heaven and the saints on earth.
like I said, argue with Paul, not me. I'll follow Christ, you can follow your opinion.

`All things` are - `all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

So we see `all things` are `all things,` not just saints!

 

[Marilyn C]

from the very beginning we see that error came in and has continued to this very day. /
Marilyn,
by this do you mean there no longer an expression of faith in Christ that is free from error?

Hi Eloy,

Interesting and pertinent question.

I see that across the Body of Christ the Holy Spirit has clarified the great truths - salvation through faith in Christ, water baptism, holy living, infilling of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit`s gifts, the Lord`s ministries,.... People received those truths over the centuries, and many were martyred for believing them. And we today have received those truths.

Still there is one great truth to be clarified across the Body & that is the eternal purposes through Christ for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations - their different inheritances in Christ.

That is why eschatology forums are so `heated` and often in a muddle. There are strong views eg, Rapture, (pre, mid, post) and the second coming of Christ.

So to answer you question - I do see some have the full expression of faith, but not yet across the Body. The Holy Spirit is accomplishing that now amid a great `battle.` Those who get offended at the final truth attack those who are speaking it `in love.`

Thus the attitude of believers is coming to the fore. Will we look what God`s word says, and discuss it `in love,` or will we defend a certain position while attacking the other person. It soon shows what `spirit` some one is of. The Spirit of truth is gentle to all, able to teach, patient, whereas the spirit of the world and Satan is `accusing.`

regards, Marilyn.

 

[concretecamper]

So we see `all things` are `all things,` not just saints!

ummm.....ok then. Change the topic

 

[Eloy Craft]

So to answer you question - I do see some have the full expression of faith, but not yet across the Body. The Holy Spirit is accomplishing that now amid a great `battle.

That's interesting Marilyn. Full expression of faith. Is that the same as a doctrine without error? Thank you.

 

[Marilyn C]

That's interesting Marilyn. Full expression of faith. Is that the same as a doctrine without error? Thank you.

Hi Eloy,

Yes I would say that. I refer to people, across the Body, (across the world), and not organisations.

Note however, that the maturity of the Body of Christ is not just to achieve the `whole counsel of God,` as Paul taught the Ephesians, (Acts 20: 27) but also to have the character of Christ formed within. ( 2 Peter 1: 2 - 4)

All doctrine leads to pride, while all love, leads to error. Thus the balance of character and teaching, knowledge of the Lord, His Character, His Purposes.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Placemat]

Error

 

[Placemat]

In the thread's first post it says "5 million souls were lost"....please elaborate? New on this forum and attempting to figure out how to do the 'quote' to post.

 

[Placemat]

1517: Martin Luther initiated the reformation and 5 millions souls are lost.

.......the response.......

In 1531 Our Lady of Guadalupe appears and as a result 9 million souls are converted and enter the Church.

Just a preview of "she will crush your head"

Lolol...sorry...at least I got the original quotes this time...still struggling here!

 

[Tigger45]

In the thread's first post it says "5 million souls were lost"....please elaborate? New on this forum and attempting to figure out how to do the 'quote' to post.

Click on ‘reply’ to quote the primary post being responded to. Click ‘+Quote’ on each additional post you’re wanting added to your reply and then when prompted click on ‘add quotes’ as needed.

 

[Placemat]

Click on ‘reply’ to quote the primary post being responded to. Click ‘+Quote’ on each additional post you’re wanting added to your reply and then when prompted click on ‘add quotes’ as needed.

Thankyou!

 

[Hebrewselevensix]

Good info

I suppose he thinks God sent both Our Lady & luther? It maybe just luther!
(As if it were Possible for God to send an excommunicated heretic, they had no authority, none of the so called reformers were apostles, matt 16:18 Jn 20:22-23 eph 2:20)

He is right, and He is right!
They can’t both be right?
You know something, you also are right!
FOTR