- Jul 10, 2016
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To you who believe in OSAS or "eternal security" or "perseverance of the saints". Which of you hold to a perspective that a believer will still be saved even if he loses faith?
I ask that because of this guy who believes in either OSAS, "eternal security" or "perseverance of the saints":
"How is it one can be saved without faith:
Heb.11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Jn.3:36 he who is believing in the Son, hath life eonian; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.
Col.1:22 But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence— 23 if indeed you continue in your faith,...."
"I've never heard that one before. [Though i think i'd stick with Heb.11:6 & Jn.3:36 as quoted before.] I wonder if all those who believe in "eternal security" (or OSAS or "Perseverance of the saints") hold to such a view."
"If i understand your viewpoint, it is that 1 Tim.1:19-20 refers to believers who lost their faith but are still saved while in unbelief. The same passage refers to such being given over to Satan for correction. The only other passage referring to such a giving over to Satan for correction is 1 Cor.5:4-5. But there its purpose is to bring a so-called "brother", who was "wicked" (vs.11-13) to salvation (v.5). He wasn't saved & was receiving the same exact discipline prescribed by Paul as those of 1 Tim.1:19-20 (those who you interpret to be saved while in unbelief & having thown away a good conscience, i.e. living in sin, just as the one referred to in 1 Cor.5:4-5. If anything those of 1 Tim.1:19-20 appear worse than he of 1 Cor.5:4-5, yet you're saying the worse is saved while the better of the two needs salvation. Likewise those of Heb.6 & 10 seem worse than the guy who needs salvation in 1 Cor.5:4-5)."
I ask that because of this guy who believes in either OSAS, "eternal security" or "perseverance of the saints":
A believer can lose his faith due to being influenced by false teachings such as is stated in 1 Timothy where some are said to have ''suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith'' (1 Tim. 1:19), but he cannot lose his salvation.
...Once saved, it is possible for a believer to renounce his faith for one reason or another, but doing so does not mean that he loses his salvation.
"How is it one can be saved without faith:
Heb.11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Jn.3:36 he who is believing in the Son, hath life eonian; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.
Col.1:22 But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence— 23 if indeed you continue in your faith,...."
Quite simply, one is saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. But once saved it is not necessary to maintain that faith in order to retain salvation. Faith is simply the means by which one takes hold of the free gift of salvation. But faith is not a channel through which salvation continually flows so that if the connection is broken salvation is cut off and lost. Once a person has believed in Christ he has been transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. When a person receives Christ as Savior he is adopted into the family of God. He is entered into union with Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit. He is sealed unto the day of redemption. He is kept by the power of God. Once a person has received Jesus as Savior he is eternally secure even if he loses his faith afterwards.
"I've never heard that one before. [Though i think i'd stick with Heb.11:6 & Jn.3:36 as quoted before.] I wonder if all those who believe in "eternal security" (or OSAS or "Perseverance of the saints") hold to such a view."
"If i understand your viewpoint, it is that 1 Tim.1:19-20 refers to believers who lost their faith but are still saved while in unbelief. The same passage refers to such being given over to Satan for correction. The only other passage referring to such a giving over to Satan for correction is 1 Cor.5:4-5. But there its purpose is to bring a so-called "brother", who was "wicked" (vs.11-13) to salvation (v.5). He wasn't saved & was receiving the same exact discipline prescribed by Paul as those of 1 Tim.1:19-20 (those who you interpret to be saved while in unbelief & having thown away a good conscience, i.e. living in sin, just as the one referred to in 1 Cor.5:4-5. If anything those of 1 Tim.1:19-20 appear worse than he of 1 Cor.5:4-5, yet you're saying the worse is saved while the better of the two needs salvation. Likewise those of Heb.6 & 10 seem worse than the guy who needs salvation in 1 Cor.5:4-5)."